[ SECRET POST #549 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #549 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[is this fandom?]


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Notes:

Going to be doing some advertising until the 15th!

livelongnmarry [LJ comm] - fandom auction type place! For a good cause.
Juxtapose Fantasy [website, art/fic] - Yaoi/slash fans - have you visited JuxtaposeFantasy yet?

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 298 secrets from Secret Submission Post #079.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

So you're saying that the default is... Female?

Re: 129

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

...what.

No, I'm saying that the default human is human, and male and female are both variations on that, each no more valid than the other.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

So it shouldn't matter if the main character is male or female then.

Re: 129

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

In an ideal world where men and women were treated equally, nope.

In this world? Yeah, it kind of does matter. I'm not saying it's the most important thing in the world, but it's not completely inconsequential, either.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

If you're preaching that it shouldn't matter, why push it?

Re: 129

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Because right now, it does matter. And you seem to be implying that ignoring that is the way to fix it. Which, sorry, it isn't.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

Ignore the sexist assholes. They'll eventually get bored and find something else to bitch about to get attention.

Point is: if there's no difference between the male and female characters, then it doesn't matter which is better.

Re: 129

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

I think we have pretty diametrically opposed viewpoints of how to deal with sexism. Yours is "ignore it, because it doesn't matter anyway and will just go away soon, because there actually isn't that much to begin with." Mine is "it runs deep and we can do a lot of different things to oppose it."

Probably not much use arguing more.

Re: 129

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Neither is better. Pushing for equal representation isn't saying that one is better.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

Characters in fiction are just a medium to tell a story. Their sex is not important as in the end they’re only an extension of the narrative intention. Both males and females have no real personalities, they're just used as part of a bigger message; their existence is tied to that of the plot or the atmosphere. That's what I meant, you’re complaining about ultimately meaningless literary definitions.

Re: 129

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

That's, uh, one extremely abstract way of looking at it.

But it is most definitely not the only way or the "one true correct" way.

One thing I will say: if this is true, what is "the narrative intention"? And what does the consistent valuing of males over females as human beings say about it?

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

Characters themselves are just an extension of the writer’s personality. Gender roles don’t play a role in the narrative unless gender roles itself is a theme in the narrative. Pixar movies, for example, have nothing to say on gender roles and hence there’s no message whatsoever about male superiority.

Narrative intention is basically the core idea behind storytelline.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

THANK YOU! You explained it better than I could have.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

Don't you understand, fellow anon? Female leads struggle in the male leads' world!

brb being oppressed

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

Get off your damn high horse, fellow anon. Fact is, most are male and it's getting repetitive.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

So? Write a story with a female lead then if it bothers you oh-so much.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

The sex of the lead character shouldn't matter. A story is good because it is good, not because of the main character's sex.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

You win 100 Internets.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

Word. ♥

Re: 129

[haro.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

is it a strawman or a strawWOMAN??!!

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

I don't think anyone here is saying "stories with male protagonists are bad." Just, "it would be nice if there were more stories with female protagonists."

Re: is it a strawman or a strawWOMAN??!!

[obnoxdwfanbrat.livejournal.com]

I'm saying that having so many stories with male protagonists compared to so few with females ones is bad. Kind of like how the fact that all fictional heroes seem to be either white or tokens is bad. Kind of like how the fact that all fictional heroes seem to be straight or stereotyped is bad. Etc.

Re: 129

[lolwahtradio.livejournal.com]

What?

Re: 129

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Er, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking about, but I'll try to explain...what I'm talking about here is the use of marked and unmarked categories in classifying people. "Unmarked" people are considered "normal," and their gender/race/sexuality/etc goes unquestioned. It isn't used to define them as a person. But people in the "marked" category are often thought of or treated as more "X" (where X is any of the following: female, non-white, queer, disabled, the list goes on) than they are "human."

I'm trying not to get too deep into the philosophy and politics of it, though, because uh, fandomsecrets is not the place. Also, I have a headache right now. :/ So this probably isn't very clear.

Re: 129

[obnoxdwfanbrat.livejournal.com]

Technically, without the intervention of certain genes and hormones that cause the development of male genital and neurological features, embryos develop into female humans. However, this is completely irrelevent to the topic at hand.

Society presents male as "default" and female as "other." Truth is that neither is "default" in anything but the most basic sense, kind of like how albinism/lack of pigment is the default without the intervention of a color-causing genes/melanin. The default person ought to be just a person of random gender, but the way society and its fictional sseries are constructed present male as the default, as the nexus of understanding, and female as sort of a cultural special interest group that males need not identify with. Consider how women are expected to identify with male figures of particular cultural salience in absence of a comparable female figure, for example.