[ SECRET POST #4066 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4066 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 26 secrets from Secret Submission Post #582.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt but how? LGBT discourse has recently taken three steps backwards in utilizing arguments like "gender is a social construct" (which implies that it really is in society's authority to define masculine/feminine) and terminology like "presenting feminine/masculine" (which implies there is a correct way to do it). If I were thirteen and heard this stuff, I'd think I was genderqueer or something because I had male hobbies, shopped for clothes in the boys' section, and don't actively think about how much I identify as female every day.

Trans issues are different because they are defined by dysphoria and the desire to transition to both the societal role opposite their birth sex inclusive and their physical sex (whether or not this surgical transition is feasible for them in their situation).

If you can't define what it means to "feel like a guy" or "feel like a girl", then what even is the point? Before this discourse, we were fighting to downplay the importance of gender at all - no thoughts, no presentation, no behaviors, no hobbies define femininity nor masculinity. Now it seems to me young activists are trying to categorize gender with no intent but to have other people validate and acknowledge them for doing it.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

If I were thirteen and heard this stuff, I'd think I was genderqueer or something because I had male hobbies, shopped for clothes in the boys' section, and don't actively think about how much I identify as female every day.

Well, there's no accounting for teen stupidity, but that's one heck of of a straw man.

No, you're not genderqueer because you dress butch, or because you have the wrong hobby. You might be genderqueer if you come to the conclusion that the work of shutting that off on a regular basis because of safety or to pay the rent (a necessity for most trans people in the closet) is slowly killing you.

[(Anonymous)]

No, you're not genderqueer because you dress butch, or because you have the wrong hobby. You might be genderqueer if you come to the conclusion that the work of shutting that off on a regular basis because of safety or to pay the rent (a necessity for most trans people in the closet) is slowly killing you.

what. substantiate that. You described being trans and having serious gender dysphoria, not "genderqueer".

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Um, how many people from the genderqueer community have you actually read on this issue? Bornstein, Feinberg, Yang, Meadows, anyone else? How many nonbinary trans people have you read or actually had a serious discussion with?

You're not even at the trans 101 level here.

[(Anonymous)]

okay so you're not even going to explain yourself then, cool

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I gave you four names, two of whom are essential reading if you're going to continue to shoot your mouth off about nonbinary trans and genderqueer people.

So no, I'm not going to explain dysphoria to an ignorant and anonymous skeptic.

[(Anonymous)]

Nope. You don't get to just throw out names when engaging in a discussion. Other SJ activists are not your meat shield against criticism, nor do they make you right. In the end, you can't explain your own argument.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Fact 1: Not all trans people who experience dysphoria wish to fully transition to the "opposite" medical, legal, and/or social gender.

Fact 2: The people who coined both "nonbinary" and "genderqueer" in the 1990s were trans activists describing Fact 1 among their own communities.

Follow so far?

[(Anonymous)]

google is so easy, dumbass. this person doesnt owe you a lesson in transness when you could easily look up some of the names they mentioned and educate your damn self and use critical thinking to reach your own conclusions like a normal fucking adult lol.

[(Anonymous)]

You can't not bring a plate and expect your discussion partner to spoon feed you. Do your own research that is debate 101 ffs

[(Anonymous)]

Lol at the replies to this. You have every right to question their non-response. Acting supercilious while throwing out a bunch of names is not a satisfactory answer, and nor is saying, "Do your own research."

[(Anonymous)]

trying to be critical of something when you lack the most basic knowledge of it is also not fantastic

[(Anonymous)]

"Do your own research" is an EXACTLY satisfactory argument, partly because the person might actually learn something instead of constantly arguing the toss from a position of utter ignorance

Wanna talk about lol? Lol at your entitled assholishness.

[(Anonymous)]

It isn't satisfactory when you'd rather learn from the person you're discussing it with.

[(Anonymous)]

Nayrt, but your straw man was my actual reality when I was a teen. I didn't fit into the box assigned by my particular culture to women at all, and for years I believed and felt like it meant that I wasn't "really" a girl (especially with being secretly attracted to women). I had never heard of trans as a concept or any of this gender stuff, but I'm pretty sure I would have labeled myself trans or the like if I had. When I learned what gender essentialism was and that it was possible to be female without being "feminine," I stopped feeling like that and accepted myself as a woman. Gender essentialism is bullshit and I hate how the queer community now likes to force it on others under the guise of being open about gender. We are supposed to be better than that. It's the same b.s. that was foisted on so many of us against out will, we shouldn't be perpetuating it.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Nayrt, but your straw man was my actual reality when I was a teen. I didn't fit into the box assigned by my particular culture to women at all, and for years I believed and felt like it meant that I wasn't "really" a girl (especially with being secretly attracted to women). I had never heard of trans as a concept or any of this gender stuff, but I'm pretty sure I would have labeled myself trans or the like if I had.

How are trans people you had never heard of as a teen responsible for your adolescent gender identity?

When I learned what gender essentialism was and that it was possible to be female without being "feminine," I stopped feeling like that and accepted myself as a woman.

Few trans people are "gender essentialist" in the way you're using here, and most of them will fully support both your adult gender identity and the process through which you developed it. Trans people generally don't care if you're a masculine lesbian or bi woman. If that works for you, awesome. It works for 9/10 people who question their gender in adolescence, awesome. That leaves a number of us whose dysphoria is not resolved by trying to integrate stuff into "boys/girls do it too."

[(Anonymous)]

That is not at all what that person is saying.