fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4107 ]

[ SECRET POST #4107 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4107 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 28 secrets from Secret Submission Post #588.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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AYRT

Actually, I'm mega squicked by underage, which is why I filter out any fic that involves it. But it's still not the same thing as actual pedophilia. Because "You're attracted to these kids and want to see them fuck each other." is not actually what motivates every fic writer! It really isn't! People write fic, sexually explicit fic even, involving characters they are not attracted to and do not want to fuck. There's more to it than that - it can be about dynamics between characters, it can be about characters people identify with and are picturing themselves as, it can be about remembering what it was like to be that age and have crushes and want to have sex, it can even be about actually being that age right now when writing/reading and wanting to see your own feelings reflected. There are so many reasons other than "I am attracted to this character" for writing that kind of thing.

Every straight person who's ever written het has written about characters fucking who they are not attracted to. Not everyone who wants to read about dragons fucking cars wants to fuck dragons or cars themselves.

I've never said that some people writing underage fic aren't pedophiles, although the proportion is probably minuscule. For one thing, actual pedophiles are not going to be satisfied by fic when there is real child porn available. Most people writing and reading underage fic do not seek out real child porn because they are not actually attracted to children. That's the difference. If someone wants to write fic about two characters fucking, but is not attracted to real children and is disgusted by the concept of themselves having sex with real children or of real children in sexual situations, they are not a pedophile. Really.

I'll be bluntly honest. When you pretend that writing fic about fictional children is the same thing as being actually attracted to real children, you are equating two things that are on very different levels in a way that minimises what pedophilia and in particular child molestation (which are two different things as well) actually are.

If someone is not attracted to real life children then they are not a pedophile. There are reasons other than attraction for writing sexually explicit fic. This is very simple.

Actually, I'm mega squicked by underage

Sure, that's why you're writing paragraphs upon paragraphs defending it and insisting the people who write this trash aren't creepy as shit. You're not fooling anyone.

AYRT

I'm squicked by underage. That doesn't mean I think it should be scourged from the earth, or that literally everyone writing underage is a pedophile.

But I don't actually need to convince you I don't like underage. That doesn't particularly matter to me. The bigger issue here is that you apparently can't conceive of people writing or reading things they don't want to do in real life, which is fucking wild to me. Like, you seriously can't think of any motivation behind writing something that isn't "Oh, I would like this in real life." That's buck wild.

It doesn't particularly matter to you because you gotta devote hours of your life rallying to defend people who write explicit sexual material about/jerking it to real children. I mean, there's playing devil's advocate and then there's this. The fact that you feel the need to defend this so ardently is fucking weird and if you were to attempt this in real life discussion with a group of people, said people would probably want you nowhere near children again. I had no idea there were this many degenerate perverts on F!S, but this is really eye opening. Even /tv/ would be raising a brow at you, anon.

AYRT

I don't care if you think I like underage, even though it's not true - that's why I haven't attempted to prove I don't like it. I care that you think liking underage automatically makes you a pedophile and by extension that liking anything in fiction means you want to do it in real life.

Can you provide any actual rebuttal to the idea that fiction is not the same as reality? Can you provide any reason why writing or reading underage necessitates attraction to children, when people are quite capable of writing and reading sexual content involving people they aren't attracted to? Can you give any actual support to your argument that isn't "ewww grosssss!!!!" Because you haven't so far.

Can you provide any proof that the people who write sexual content of children aren't doing so out of pedophilic desire? The onus is on you here, considering the very act of writing porn of children kind of already puts you in the red. I'm perfectly capable of separating fiction from reality, but when you fantasize about characters played by real life children, that's a line. You seem to be acting like I'm on par with the batshit anti-Sheithers in the Voltron fandom, when no, I'm talking explicitly about child actors here, a line I always thought most agreed was going too far, even by those who argue in favor of shota/lolicon. And again, your ardent defense of this is fucking bizarre. What do you gain from arguing semantics ("oh, fantasizing about 11 year olds ISN'T pedophilia, it's ephebophilia, which makes it not skeevy!!")? And it's alarming you somehow believe you're the level headed person here.

AYRT

I have no interest in responding to you further if you're going to straight up lie about what I've said. You clearly don't intend to actually consider anything I might say, because you're already happy to make things up and parrot them back at me as if they had any relevance to what I've actually said. Which is, by the way, another mark against your supposed ability to separate fiction and reality, if you can't tell the difference between things I said and things you've decided you're going to pretend I said.

I'm happy to have enough sense to realize that writing porn about characters played by real life children (without even having the sense to age them up) is creepy and deserves to be called as such and should not be normalized. I'm truly sorry you're so warped to think otherwise, but y'know, keep fighting for your right to fap to underage kids in fiction while believing it's totally fine. You've wasted hours of your life arguing in favor of some really heinous things that supposedly "skeeves you out", congrats.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2018-04-03 18:14 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2018-04-04 00:15 (UTC) - Expand

I like you anon. Everything you have said is something I agree with. I wish I could say more, but that sums up exactly what I wanna say.

Not your fault you ended up with a wilfully obtuse asshat troll hounding you.

I had no idea there are so many people on F!S that lack some basic reading comprehension. I think the other anon explained it very well, and for you to still not being able to grasp the concept makes me wonder if you're either a moral fanatic, a troll, or just a bit stupid.

I have no horse in this race, but even I understand that fiction is fictional, and reality is real. Why is it so difficult to understand? Every other example is perfectly logic (like not actually wanting to murder someone when writing a crime drama), but in this case all rational thinking is suddenly gone?

Because this involves being attracted to a real life underage actor. It's like I'm in the Twilight zone with how many people here are gung ho about sexual attraction to real life kids.

DA

It's like we're in the Twilight Zone with how you're still insisting it's about being attracted to real life kids when multiple people have given you multiple alternative explanations for why people write that kind of fic.

Holy shit, you're delusional. I'm attracted to Nancy's actress, but I'm sure as shit not attracted to Will's actor just because I think Will/Mike fic is cute. Get your concern trolling ass outta here.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2018-04-03 15:49 (UTC) - Expand

But it doesn't necessarily! Liking a character often has little to do with their actor, or even sexual attraction to them. Of course, if you're the type of person who ships pairings where both are just hot people and that's the only thing you care about, then you might find that other concept strange.

Full offense, but the actors in Stranger Things and IT have mentioned they know of fandom and read fanfic. Can you even consider how creepy it would be for them to find fanfiction written by adult women over them having sex, at the age of

-12? Could you try considering this when you make endless posts spouting how harmless pornfic is of real child actors? I don't care about porn of, say, the South Park kids because those are actual fictional kids created by adults. But that same reasoning cannot apply to characters played by 3D child actors. The wall between fandom and celebrities is non-existent now, there's a high chance they'll come across something like this if it continues on. If you're gonna write smut about these characters, age them up ffs. There's no excuse to write porn of them as they are now.

A fic is nothing but words. Children don't get hurt by it's production. A fic doesn't force the actors to magically act/live whatever was written.

Now, fans shouldn't show any of those fics to the actors, and the actors can stay away from some parts of fandom, or at least the NSFW parts of it (which, they should stay away from in the first place if they're minors)

https://archiveofourown.org/users/brbgettingwine/pseuds/brbgettingwine

Fans shouldn't be writing this shit, period. I can't believe there are people trying to insist there is nothing wrong with this.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2018-04-03 16:58 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2018-04-03 17:19 (UTC) - Expand

AYRT

1) That's different. The issue there is a matter of access to the fic, not its very existence. Archive-locking a fic so that it can only be accessed by logged-in users, and marking it as explicit so that the adult content warning shows up, are existing measures in place to make that sort of thing less likely to happen. I would support further measures being made to ensure that underage people cannot access material marked "explicit", but if they choose to ignore an "adults only" marker, it's not the writer's fault.

2) You assume that all fanfiction is written by adult women. There are older children and teens in fandom too. Some of them write fanfiction. Some of them even sexually explicit fanfiction.

3) I actually don't agree with the idea that sexually explicit RPF involving minors should be shared freely, because I don't think that it's appropriate to have it potentially accessible by the subjects. However, fic involving characters is different from fic involving the actors. And again, not all of it is being written by adults in the first place.

4) If you want to criticise people pushing unwanted sexuality on the underage actors, perhaps you ought to start with the fucking creators of Stranger Things, who forced the children to kiss entirely because it made them uncomfortable. I consider that far worse and more unethical than someone writing fanfic about the characters fucking, because it involved actual children being made to do actual acts they were uncomfortable with.

However, fic involving characters is different from fic involving the actors.

Anon keeps saying like a mantra, trying to convince themselves it's true, insisting to the cops that, no, they're not creepy, it doesn't count if they're fapping to underage kids, they're just characters!! Played by underage kids!! It's not creepy at all, guys!!

AYRT

Quite simply, most people cannot and do not keep a mental image of what a character's actor looks like in their heads at all times. If you need any evidence of this, look at the descriptions given in shipfic involving characters whose actors are old, out of shape, or ugly - I guarantee you that they'll be filled with six-pack abs and smooth skin and chiseled features no matter what the actors actually look like. This is because a fictional character is not the same as a real person. It's an amalgam of various traits, actions, and expressions, portrayed by an actor but transformed in the mind of the audience.

You really think the cops will get involved? Oh no I wrote an explicit murder scene, better call the cops on me because I MUST think that murder is OK in real life!

I'm terrified of you. If you're this unable to tell the difference between fiction and reality, I fear what you might do after playing a violent video game, or god forbid watching something like Hannibal. Please seek help before you hurt someone, this is not normal.

If it creeps them out to read fic, could they not just...avoid fic?

Hi troll.

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