fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4113 ]

[ SECRET POST #4113 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4113 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Male characters that aren’t sexist jerks (and/or jerks at all, I’ll happily hear about non-jerks of all kinds). I couldn’t think of any, maybe I watch the wrong shows but if that’s an unfortunate view point then sorry, I don’t write original male characters, to be put in position of position of responsibility for wondering if there are any. If there were plenty I wouldn’t be asking.

My general idea was, if there are any (since all my faves are jerks/have been sexist at least off handedly and I’ve made my peace with that and will admit they’re jerks), tell me about them? Rec me your not-jerks. And if like me, you can’t think of any and all your favourites are jerks, share where your line is/why you can put it aside to like them still.

Personally, I think I’m just so used to at least casual sexism and dickishness that it’s a base level for me now. I’m less a fan of the “Nice Guy” and more of a fan of the spade who knows he’s a spade. I find I’m more likely to judge the character though if I rewatch vs at the time or if canon starts painting their behaviour as acceptable.

I think this is going to end up in a lot of debate about whether characters are sexist or not and what constitutes enough sexism to be a jerk.

Here are some:

https://www.bustle.com/articles/99906-9-most-feminist-male-disney-characters-from-a-patriarchy-breaking-prince-to-a-truly-progressive-lion

https://www.romper.com/p/5-feminist-male-book-characters-who-are-all-about-gender-equality-7043

I guarantee someone is going to say one or all of these are sexist.

I guarantee someone is going to say one or all of these are sexist.

But I don't think that's an intrinsically worthless point to make or conversation to have, you know? If the debate is what constitutes being a jerk, and what should we just be willing to accept, there is validity to that debate.

I didn't say it wasn't valid. I meant more that OP will never get a real answer from us that she doesn't decide upon herself.

I was sort of hoping maybe for it to go down a more positive road where people talked about the characters they find aren’t those things and then maybe I’d watch the thing they’re in and next time I try and think of someone I can go “that guy”. Possibly a little naive of me?

Idk, I did give you some links.

Honestly though this sounds like maybe the genres you like are the ones where the sexist jerk thing is a standard for (personally unnecessary imo) "~gritty realism~" or whatever, as opposed to it being a given thing across the board.

What genres do you normally watch? The sexist jerk thing is definitely more prevalent in certain areas than others. Disney/Pixar has a huge fandom and a whole lot of the male characters there aren't sexist jerks.

Would you say Dumbledore was a sexist jerk?

Thank you, link anon. I’m still wading through comments trying to work out which ones are aimed at me specifically but I will give those a read and I do really appreciate it <3

Wait...it isn't "jerks who are not sexist" but you actually think there are no male characters who are not sexist??/?

Maybe they only watch edgy tv shows where sexism is an easy way to indicate grittiness?

Idk I thought it was a troll but they appear to be serious.

Not a troll, though in my defence, it’s nighttime where I am, I’m tired, I can’t recall everything I’ve ever watched. It’s more like someone said “name someone who isn’t at least a little bit sexist etc” and I went “uhhhhhhhh......”

I mostly watch western live action tv. Mostly American but a lot of British too, some Canadian and Australian too. Very rarely some fresh given the super tentative grasp on French I have. There’s a lot of CW stuff. Right now I’m watching The Alienist, Channel Zero, Supergirl, iZombie. My past main fandoms/stuff that’s not on anymore, are Merlin, Supernatural, TVD.

And anons above (or below or somewhere) are right, I’m thinking about sexism that probably used to fly under the radar and maybe I wouldn’t have thought about it before but it still is sexist no matter how casually the character says it. And for jerk I’m defining it as being overly jerky when the situation doesn’t call for it, mostly excused because they are ~main characters~. When I watch Gane of Thrones (the most gritty example I can think of that I watch), I go in expecting it to be sexist and for everyone to be a jerk, but it would still be nice if they weren’t? I don’t know what I’m supposed to defend with that?

I can see where they're coming from. Not all male characters are intentionally/overtly sexist, but there's sexism (even if it's only mild sexism) in every canon, and that affects the way that the male characters treat female characters or how the audience perceives the actions of a supposedly feminist male character.

NAYRT

I am just baffled at the idea of anyone looking at Russell from Up and going "that there is a sexist jerk."

presumably, that's not what they were dong

goddammit, I typed "dong" instead of "doing" and now everything is ruined

ngl I laughed.

We're not saying that the sexist jerk thing isnt prevalent and a problem - it is, especially in TV series and movies aimed at mainstream audiences where everything is edgy and all the canon ships are tropey hetero love triangles and etc etc.

But not a single one? Even in other mediums? They're exceptional because they're so rare, but they do exist. I think it's more the idea that the person can't think of A SINGLE CHARACTER out of everything they've ever read or watched that is making people go WTF.

Yeah no I get where you're coming from, if it's a literal statement about every fictional character across all of recorded media it's not true, but it seems like it's more someone asking a legitimate question, and thinking more about their own specific experiences, and specifically about main characters and fandom favorites and genres they like

it seems reasonable in context i guess

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If it helps I haven’t seen Up.

You should, it's a great movie :)

I think the only reason I didn’t was because everyone said “don’t watch Up, it will destroy you” and I’m not good with depressing stuff (unless it’s fanfic then I will happily bawl my heart out because I’m weird like that). I had to hold it together at the end of Monsters Inc tonight because the kids I’m looking after apparently don’t feel emotions yet. Or they just want to see the responsible adult cry at an animated kid saying “kitty”.

The first ten minutes will destroy you but the rest of the movie will make it better - that's the point of the movie, tbh. The main character, the old man, learning that life goes on after tragedy and can still be great.

I kind of jut assumed they were asking for characters from canons not aimed at small children.

Why?

The question of whether they meant a specific genre or kind of character was asked and the answer was no.

they said "rec me characters from anything" not "I am claiming as an objective truth that there are no male non-sexist characters in anything"

Yeah, and I said I can't imagine anyone looking at Russell from Up and calling him a sexist jerk, not that the OP was doing that.

I mean, I was giving an example there.

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I think their point is more that like... even with characters that we think of as not being sexist, that judgment often involves overlooking small-scale or casual, but still real, moments of sexism or jerkishness

I don't know, it doesn't seem like a prima facie ridiculous topic of conversation to me. especially if we're talking about, for instance, main characters of well-established TV series. and if you think that it's a ridiculous question, the easiest way to prove it is by answering it, so

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