[ SECRET POST #562 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #562 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


__________________________________________________



102.


__________________________________________________



103.


__________________________________________________



104.


__________________________________________________



105.


__________________________________________________



106.


__________________________________________________



107.


__________________________________________________



108.


__________________________________________________



109.


__________________________________________________



110.


__________________________________________________



111.


__________________________________________________



112.


__________________________________________________



113.


__________________________________________________



114.


__________________________________________________



115.


__________________________________________________



116.


__________________________________________________



117.


__________________________________________________



118.


__________________________________________________



119.


__________________________________________________



120.


__________________________________________________



121.


__________________________________________________



122.


__________________________________________________



123.


__________________________________________________



124.


__________________________________________________



125.


__________________________________________________



126.


__________________________________________________



127.


__________________________________________________



128.


__________________________________________________



129.


__________________________________________________



130.


__________________________________________________



131.


__________________________________________________



132.


__________________________________________________



133.


__________________________________________________



134.


__________________________________________________



135.


__________________________________________________



136.


__________________________________________________



137.


__________________________________________________



138.


__________________________________________________



139.


__________________________________________________



140.


__________________________________________________



141.


__________________________________________________



142.


__________________________________________________



143.


__________________________________________________



144.


__________________________________________________



145.


__________________________________________________



146.


__________________________________________________



147.


__________________________________________________



148.


__________________________________________________



149.


__________________________________________________



150.


__________________________________________________



151.


__________________________________________________



152.


__________________________________________________



153.


__________________________________________________



154.


__________________________________________________



155.


__________________________________________________



156.


__________________________________________________



157.


__________________________________________________



158.


__________________________________________________



159.


__________________________________________________



160.


__________________________________________________



161.


__________________________________________________



162.


__________________________________________________



163.


__________________________________________________



164.


__________________________________________________



165.


__________________________________________________



166.


__________________________________________________



167.


__________________________________________________



168.


__________________________________________________



169.


__________________________________________________



170. [posted twice]


__________________________________________________



171.


__________________________________________________



172.


__________________________________________________



173.


__________________________________________________



174.


__________________________________________________



175.


__________________________________________________



176.



Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 446 secrets from Secret Submission Post #081.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ], [ 1 - empty comment ], [ 1 - Walken ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

132. I kind of want to stab every person who called this secret a troll in the face.

I encourage everyone who thinks the OP is a troll to read this essay (http://www.trickster.org/symposium/symp130.html).

I warn on my fics because it's convention and you get slammed for not doing it. I don't think warnings should be necessary.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree and if they don't like the way a scene is going, they can STOP READING IT! WHAT A RADICAL NOTION!

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Gasp! So the author isn't holding them at gunpoint, forcing them to finish their guro-tentacle-rape-necro-underage-fish fic?! Everything I thought I knew has turned out to be a lie!

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Yeah, um, but when it only takes one sentence to trigger someone into hours of crying and/or flashbacks and/or a panic attack, etc., that's completely unhelpful.

Anon clearly doesn't actually understand what, "trigger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger)," MEANS.

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Taking a look at that, it seems to me like a trigger could be pretty much *anything* - I don't know, someone could be raped by a guy who just ate hot dogs and be forever freaked out by the scent of hot-dog breath (not trying to diminish anyone's experiences here, just pulling a crappy example out of my ass). It seems like someone's probably going to run into something triggering whether they like it or not - I don't see how slapping warnings on fics is going to help much.

Not like I know anything about it, but whatever.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

This is true. And no, you can't avoid something like that. (Although personally, the one really specific trigger I once had like that, I desensitized myself to with overexposure.)

But just general, really obvious triggers? Like...an assault scene? Different story. The overall scenario is one that people who are easily triggered know to avoid IF they know it's in a fic.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

How else are people supposed to find what they want to read, though? It's not like most of us have time to read every fic in fandom, and everybody has preferences.

Not that I would call them warnings of course, more like... notes? Something that makes searches a little less frustrating, in any case.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. If I am searching for darkfic, I want to be able to find it without having to read every damn story that's posted. If you don't give a warning or include it in the summary, a lot of darkfic fans are going to skip your story by. And then we all lose.

[darsynia.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Happy mediums! Not just found in Madeline L'Engle books!

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

There's a difference between saying that something's 'dark with mature content' and listing out rape, incest, bondage, inappropriate use of ice cream, snuggling, and morning-after.

There's *description* and then there's labeling.

[dissident.livejournal.com]

Maybe we're just too damned picky about what we're willing to do with our precious free time!

Because God knows I'm just giddy at the prospect of sorting through loads of badfic for relaxation!

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Yes, because badfic is certainly labeled with: "WARNING: BADFIC. ONLY READ IF DESPERATE, MASOCHISTIC OR BORED."

[dissident.livejournal.com]

LOL.
No.

I'm thinking the secret poster really was just trolling.

Her logic is skewed.

Scenario 1 - She posts no warnings or author notes of any kind, people read the story and say "dude you could have warned us about the underage bondage kink!!!" The author would then complain that she's NOT YOUR NETNANNY!

Scenario 2 - She posts warnings, people read them are happy, because only people who aren't bothered by her warnings enjoy it, so eeveryone's happy.

Scenario 3 - She posts no warnings, notes, pairings, nothing. Nobody bothers to read most of her stories, wary of being slapped with anime tentacle rape. Author is horrified that nobody is reading and therefore not leaving glowing reviews of her fic.

[darsynia.livejournal.com]

Except, fanfiction =/= published fiction. I don't think the OP is a troll, but I DO think they're taking this all way too seriously, as ironic as that sounds.

I don't want to ruin plot points any more than the next person does, but trigger issues are trigger issues. It's one thing to call someone a fragile snowflake because they don't like darkfic and quite another to call them a wuss because they want to know if a fic has rape or torture in it before they click. Be an equal opportunity fighter and complain that people say 'PWP' or 'Slash' or put a rating on the fic, for crying out loud.

There are plenty of ways to go about giving hints that a story might have trigger issues without compromising the story's integrity or the author's sense of pandering to the reader. Simply saying 'possible sexual trigger issues' or 'possible non-sexual trigger issues' is hardly giving away anything, and it's enough to stop people who have a genuine interest in keeping themselves away from that stuff from clicking in the first place.

Warnings should put the responsibility of whether or not to read in the READER's hands, not the writer's. While yes, the 'bookstore analogy' has its flaws, limiting the argument to 'but, books don't come with warnings!' ignores the fact that television and movies DO, as do video games. And the very fact that books have genres into which they're placed and written should tell people something. Editors are the ones that keep those in line, we never even see that process. A Young Adult Lit. book with a violent torture scene or a rape scene in it would likely be edited extensively, rejected, or placed in a different genre.

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Except that the warnings on movies and videogames are very vague. 'Sexual content, violence, language, etc.' They don't list every last detail and possible squick. I'm not saying you should write something that looks innocent and My Little Pony and then surprise!tentacle them into Anita Blake or something - but there's a difference between indicating a level of maturity with a general rating and outlining every possibly squicky event that happens in your fic.

[darsynia.livejournal.com]

I agree. That's exactly what I'm saying:

Simply saying 'possible sexual trigger issues' or 'possible non-sexual trigger issues' is hardly giving away anything, and it's enough to stop people who have a genuine interest in keeping themselves away from that stuff from clicking in the first place.

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

*blink*

Why so you did. Righty-O then.

[enjolras.livejournal.com]

Why shouldn't they be necessary? I mean, come on, is it really so much work to put a freaking warning on a fic? Geez.

Also, comparing fanfiction to published fiction is quite laughable.

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Why is it laughable?

[enjolras.livejournal.com]

Fanfiction is very amateur. I'm not saying every author in the world is genius or that every fanfic author is inferior, because that isn't true, but I just think it's silly to even compare books to fanfiction. There is a distinctive quality difference. And there is nothing holding anyone back from giving a simple "explicit content" in your summary. I mean, some people look for specific things like rape and incest and such so why not just state it so they find what they're looking for? If your only defense is that published books don't do the same, I don't see how in the world that is even relevant and is a pretty weak defense. It's hilarious some think it's so bad to give simple note because it might spoil the ~wondrous~ fanfic plot.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, that essay is epic fail.

Hmm, let's weigh the issues here. On the ONE hand, we have people who a) want it to be easier to find what they're looking for, b) want it to be easier to avoid what they don't want, and possibly c) want to avoid rape/abuse triggers because they have PTSD issues. CLEARLY OFFENSIVE!

On the OTHER hand, we have an author who is terribly offended by all of the above, and who apparently believes that the convention of warning for rape, death, torture, chan and/or any other squicky thing is somehow KILLING THE MAGIC OF THE CREATIVE PROCESS OMG **SPARKLY HAND MOTIONS** WHY SHOULD I SPOILER MAH STORY IT IS TOO GOOD FOR THAT!


...Yeah, no.

1) If the impact of someone's fic is ruined, simply ruined, by the convention of including these warnings, I'm guessing that's a pretty shitty fic to start with. Spoiling the fact that there is a graphic rape in the story should not undermine the plot that badly; if it does, there is a SERIOUS problem.

2) I have my, "fandom as Wal-Mart," days, and I don't see anything wrong with that. It's a fucking hobby, for god's sake. I don't always read fanfic to expand my mind; I DO read it because it's always fun.

3) That said, generally avoiding the ONE thing I (usually) hate - deathfic - has not EVER kept me from being surprised or touched by what fandom brings me. In fact, I am continually surprised and moved by fanfiction. That's often why I read it. And I doubt avoiding the things they don't like anyway has kept anyone else from being similarly affected.

4) The entire tone of this article is also snide and victim-blaming. Whoo, way to be an asshole, whoever this author is.

5) Also, hubris like whoa. Maybe I want a warning on a story because it's NOT that special, and there may be dozens more just like it - and better written! This particular courtesy is also about humility (particularly in large fandoms) and realising that people will be more open to reading your fic if you cooperate in making it as readable as possible.


IN SHORT: that essay is some whiny load of poorly-justified LOL BUTTHURT and should be given no further consideration.

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Sometimes, just sometimes, some of us like to go into something looking for a good story instead of picking and choosing the elements we like. I know I appreciate good writing more than anything else, regardless of what squicks me or doesn't.

That is all.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Right, because you're unique that way. And you've never read a book jacket, thought it didn't sound like your thing, and put the book back down.


Make sure you don't fall off that horse there. It looks like an awfully long way to the ground.

Re: 132

[poisontea.livejournal.com]

I don't think they're probably a troll because they don't want to label their fics.

I think they're probably a troll because they basically call everyone who may have serious issues with something that's written a sissy.

Even then, they might not be a troll! But the fact that they posted something that is so damn arguable AND would doubtless bring tons of wank makes it more likely. Not all unpopular opinions are just wankbait, but they are more likely to be.

That said, there are plenty of reasons to "warn" for or describe things in your story, and mentioning very vague elements that shouldn't be spoilers for the story itself shouldn't ruin the author's enjoyment at all. It just helps make sure that the people who will enjoy reading the story will find it, and the ones who won't, won't. It doesn't take too much effort or swallowing-of-pride to put in that something contains a rape scene, incest, character death, or etcetera.

hello late reply

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Eh, you have a point, but I find in general people on this comm are too quick to label potentially wanky secrets as trolls. (Probably because there are lots of trolls...)

I've kinda argued this one to death, though, so I think I'll leave it at that.