[ SECRET POST #4123 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4123 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 17 secrets from Secret Submission Post #590.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Frozen /could/ have been more progressive if it had actually done any of the things fandom thinks it did--ie Elsa having an actual mental disorder or not being straight or whatever--OR heck, if it had actually followed through on its own character development, but alas.

[(Anonymous)]

Obviously it could have been more progressive, but so could Moana, or Lilo and Stitch, etc. But I don't get what is not progressive about it. There's nothing unprogressive about an adult woman kissing her love interest. Or about Elsa literally having a superpower without any clarity that she's a lesbian.

What IS cool is that it has female leads, and is focused on their love story, which, while not ground-breaking, is still fresh compared to love-at-true-sight tropes. Plus, Elsa being a queen instead of a princess is actually is fairly ground-breaking for mainstream children's media, as "queen" has long been seen as having negative, evil connotations (even outside of Disney - which is why in the My Little Pony reboot, the queen goddess Celestia is still called a Princess instead). Nor do either woman rely on male characters love interests to save them, nor do they lack any self-agency.

Honestly, Disney has had lots of strong female characters even since the 90's. I don't think Disney has really been all that behind in presenting good female characters for decades. But it is always great to get a film starring two young women. Sure, Lilo and Stitch did it, too. but Lilo and Stitch is a crap film And sure, Enchanted also made fun of the love at first sight trope. But even if Frozen wasn't the FIRST MOVIE EVER TO HAVE WOMEN or something, it still was a fantastic release when like 90% of films these days still don't even pass the Bechdel test.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

My main issue with the character development is that it /wasn't/ focused on the sisters' love story--whether they loved each other or not was never actually in question (certainly not to the audience, since we had both sides from the get-go), but whether they UNDERSTOOD each other seemed like it was being set up to be the main crux of the film, and...it wasn't. Yes, Elsa loves Anna dearly, but we knew that from the first ten minutes and never had a reason to doubt it at any point other than some missed-communication yelling. It's like the first half and second half of the movie have nothing to do with each other (especially with that useless fucking troll song that contributed absolutely nothing to the plot).

Compare it to the two other sibling relationships in this secret: Nani's story is 100% about her love for Lilo and the sacrifices she has to make for Lilo's good, and the entire point of Kenai and Koda's intertwined story is about understanding each other.

No one's saying there shouldn't be more movies with sisters and that Frozen wasn't about Elsa and Anna--just that it's not the best example.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, that's objectively not true. The story IS focused on the sisters' relationship. That's the entire premise of the show. We see that Elsa is literally the way she is because she accidentally hurt Anna with her powers, and now is afraid she'll do it again. She was pressured, both by herself and by her parents, to keep everything hidden away, and the only way to do that was to shut herself out. How is that not also about the sacrifices an older sister makes for a younger sister?

In the story, Anna has to have faith that Elsa loves her, and have faith in Elsa herself. Which is why Anna puts herself in danger just to prove it, and that her sister isn't a monster. It certainly would have been easier for Anna to just stay in the castle and called herself the new queen or something, but she chooses to have faith in her sister instead.

Just because there is a romance subplot doesn't mean the sister main plot is somehow sidetracked. Anna is exploring what love means. The entire climax of the movie is that familial love can be True Love, too.

I really don't see your point about how actual subplots in Lilo and Stitch, etc., are somehow more progressive or something.

[(Anonymous)]

My point is all of that is inferred rather than actually included in the plot. The structure of the sisterly-love plot, despite being the focus, is objectively weak from a storytelling perspective. There were several ways it could have been focused better to actually show mutual understanding being achieved, which didn't happen.

Again, whether they loved each other was never in question. Whether they understood each other was the main conflict (see: their argument in the castle) but wasn't resolved, just brushed under the love thing, which, again, we already knew. There was no growth, just more proof that we already had from their character introductions.

I wasn't saying those two were more "progressive", just referring to those (since they were in the secret) as sibling relationships with a clear plot/goal, even as a subplot.