[ SECRET POST #4123 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4123 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 17 secrets from Secret Submission Post #590.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. https://i.imgur.com/AxnoytC.png

[(Anonymous)]

I always hear about people whining about how Frozen is seen as progressive WHEN IT ISSSSNNN'TTTTT, but I have never actually seen the people who call it progressive.

[(Anonymous)]

there are tons. because omg sisters, female leads, etc.

even though lilo and stitch exists. that's literally the rage.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT but like

I'm not sure that reiterating that you think there are tons is really responsive to AYRT's point?

[(Anonymous)]

I'll just add you to the list of people who whine about Frozen.

[(Anonymous)]

The main thing I've seen people praising Frozen for is the sisterly bond between Elsa and Anna. I love Frozen and I loved the sisterly bond, but it bugs me when people act like Frozen is the only movie ever to have two sisters repairing their relationship. It's like people forget (or maybe never saw) Lilo and Stitch.

[(Anonymous)]

Lilo and Stitch came out 16 years ago. And frankly, didn't do that well. Also, a lot of kids these days don't really like watching traditional animation.

Also, the Lilo and Stitch was not about two sisters. It was about Lilo and Stitch (an alien). Them being sisters was a subplot.

[(Anonymous)]

What evidence is there that kids don't like traditional animation these days??? As far as I can see, kids are still watching cartoons. The fact that Disney refuses to do traditional animation anymore doesn't mean kids wouldn't watch it.

Lilo and Stitch just wasn't a very good film. It sold a lot of Stitch merchandise, but it was more of a silly comedy than an epic.

[(Anonymous)]

I ADORE lilo and stitch but your last comment is so fucking true lol. It’s not about LILO and Nani. It’s about Stitch and Lilo.

[(Anonymous)]

Nani and Lilo are also sisters, but I felt that their relationship was closer to mother and daughter because of their circumstances in the film.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I thought their relationship was sweet and well-written, but it didn't resonate with me and my sister at all for that exact reason-- it was less a sisterly relationship and more of a parental one.

[(Anonymous)]

there WAS no sisterly bond, they didn't fucking know each other

why hate frozen for being overpraised on progressiveness points when you could hate it for being a shoddy hack of a story

that said there should be room for more than one sister movie in the world, DISNEY PLEASE MAKE ANOTHER ONE BUT ACTUALLY GOOD

[(Anonymous)]

+1

The story was obviously tacked together in a rush from editing room scraps and every time people try to tell me it was well-written I want to scream. It was pretty and I liked the music just fine but dear god the story was a mess.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh. Lilo and Stitch exists but it also... It doesn't portray it in the way Frozen does which is explicit "familial love is True Love, too."

[(Anonymous)]

Frozen /could/ have been more progressive if it had actually done any of the things fandom thinks it did--ie Elsa having an actual mental disorder or not being straight or whatever--OR heck, if it had actually followed through on its own character development, but alas.

[(Anonymous)]

Obviously it could have been more progressive, but so could Moana, or Lilo and Stitch, etc. But I don't get what is not progressive about it. There's nothing unprogressive about an adult woman kissing her love interest. Or about Elsa literally having a superpower without any clarity that she's a lesbian.

What IS cool is that it has female leads, and is focused on their love story, which, while not ground-breaking, is still fresh compared to love-at-true-sight tropes. Plus, Elsa being a queen instead of a princess is actually is fairly ground-breaking for mainstream children's media, as "queen" has long been seen as having negative, evil connotations (even outside of Disney - which is why in the My Little Pony reboot, the queen goddess Celestia is still called a Princess instead). Nor do either woman rely on male characters love interests to save them, nor do they lack any self-agency.

Honestly, Disney has had lots of strong female characters even since the 90's. I don't think Disney has really been all that behind in presenting good female characters for decades. But it is always great to get a film starring two young women. Sure, Lilo and Stitch did it, too. but Lilo and Stitch is a crap film And sure, Enchanted also made fun of the love at first sight trope. But even if Frozen wasn't the FIRST MOVIE EVER TO HAVE WOMEN or something, it still was a fantastic release when like 90% of films these days still don't even pass the Bechdel test.

[nightscale]

Lilo and Stitch is a bit more well known, and I love it to bits, but Brother Bear is very, very underrated tbh and not as big. Which is a shame because I think it's a real gem of a movie.

Though to be fair to Frozen it hit at the height of tumblr's 'everything I love is super-progressive even when it's not' phase and I can't really blame it for that. The movie itself is fun, but it's not the first to tackle sisterly relationships, however it's not a bad thing that it's another one that does.

Idk I just feel like it's the new cool thing to trash Frozen as if it's The Worst garbage EVER when it's just a fun Princess movie with added superpowers.

[(Anonymous)]

I can't believe you totalled a mammoth...

[tabaqui]

I agree - Brother Bear was very, very cool.

[(Anonymous)]

I do not get the Disney princess hate on this comm. I guess I never grew out of my princess-love phase? SHRUG.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get it either, anon, but I also didn't grow out of my princess-loving phase, just out of the "wanting to be a princess" phase.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think Frozen was super progressive or anything but it does annoy me when people are like 'but Lilo & Stitch!11!' Part of the reason people make note of Frozen being about the bond between sisters and not their love interests and such is not just because it's a Disney film but because it's a Disney /princess/ film. Lilo & Stitch isn't, neither is Brother Bear. Frozen specifically fits into a very particular Disney archetype of films which is usually focused on romance over family bonds, and which often has only one main non-villain female lead (off hand, the only other princess films I can think of that have a main, non-villain female character besides the lead would be Sleeping Beauty with the fairies and arguably Charlotte in the Princess & the Frog). And in that sense, yes, Frozen was something different and I think it should get some praise for that.

[feotakahari]

Is there something wrong with kissing a love interest?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah that made me go “wut.”

And it’s not even the end of the film. Anna skating with Elsa is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But whatever. Frozen’s got flaws but some ppl’s peeves with the film are petty as fuck

[(Anonymous)]

Everything about Anna/Kristoff was frustrating as fuck, and Anna kissing him in the end was just icing on the bullshit cake when the movie would have been 1000000x without any romantic subplot at all. But the plot was so weak that it basically required the Kristoff/Hans romance thing to make the sisterly bond stronger.

All this to say Kristoff was clearly based off the little robber girl from the original fairy tale but they NEEDED romance to make the plot work so they made him a dude and it's bullshit.