fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #566 ]

[ SECRET POST #566 ]

⌈ Secret Post #566 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 86 secrets from Secret Submission Post #081.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Amazingly some people enter fandom with their IQ levels intact and over 90.

And they can't squee too? I would think they would want to get away from all that drama?

Please explain this to me, anon, on why politics in fandom is important. I really don't understand. D:

Sure they can squee too, they don't have to leave their brains behind at the door.

If we don't confront things like racism and sexism we stand no chance of getting rid of them.

I'd like to think I don't leave my brain at the door... But I guess I do if I would rather squee then fight everyone.

... Uh. Isn't that what actual politics is for? 8( I can see if the fandom was political satire, tongue-in-cheek, or whatever, then maybe, yeah. I see your point. Politics in fandoms that are meant to be silly or not-really-that-important? Yeeaaah. It's not worth fighting for.

Politics isn't something separate from the rest of life. We are talking about issues which affect people every day.

You might not leave your brain at the door, but you should try leaving your privilege there some time.

because...

....

who the fuck are you to judge what any of us do when we are not at our computer? some of us are actually talking about the issues which affect us every day IN OUR REAL LIFE but we don't seem to feel this driving need to drag people who might want a reprieve from it when exploring their hobbies.

fuck you.

So who's the OP of the secret to judge people who want to discuss the political or social implications of a book, TV show or whatever?

*rolls eyes*

(no subject)

cdaae.livejournal.com - 2008-07-24 22:34 (UTC) - Expand

If all you want to talk about how certain people are oppressed, then just say "I DON'T THINK PUPPIES SHOULD BE KICKED" instead of using fandom as a soapbox. I don't like racism and sexism. I don't really talk about it in certain fandoms because it's not the place for it.

Okay.

Just popping my nose in here to say that in some fandoms, it's absolutely the place for it. Fiction is a mirror to reality. It isn't "using fandom as a soapbox" to observe that a character is behaving in a sexist or racist way, or to discuss whether you think the writers are betraying a sexist attitude (or whatever).

I guess I'm not one of those people who notice it then. Usually I just go "What an asshole/bitch." 8(

edit: Also, I guess if it's just a discussion it wouldn't be all that bad. Though, from what I've noticed from my shoes, people tend to get extremely emotional over that type of stuff and it explodes into, well, fandom wank. It just gets tiring after a while, you know?

Edited 2008-07-24 22:37 (UTC)

(no subject)

cdaae.livejournal.com - 2008-07-24 22:44 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

baka-tenshi.livejournal.com - 2008-07-24 22:52 (UTC) - Expand

So anyone who enters fandom with the intention of kicking back and enjoying things is a brain-dead dumbbell? Good to know! ^_^

Cause fandom really is serious business, you know. D:

No. But someone who thinks that the entirety of fandom experience should be escapism and anyone who chooses to believe otherwise is "harshing [their] squee" and is a "feminist, fag hag or blacktivist" is probably a bigoted idiot.

By defending the secret, by extension you're defending someone who is clearly racist and sexist, which I think is why people are getting het up at you.

I'll admit I didn't see those words right away. But I'm not defending the racism, I'm defending the person who wants to have fun in fandom and believes in keeping politics in fandom separate. They just shouldn't have used derogatory words like that.

*prepares to be "suuuure, we believe you/you're just saying that/too late, mind's made up, you're a fat racist bitch/lol ass cover backpedal"'d into oblivion now*

I don't think you can separate the racism, sexism and homophobia from the OP's comment. And while I sympathize with the desire to not problematize the shows you enjoy, politics/race/sex/etc inform a person's world view.

To say "this is escapism, I don't want to hear about real life problems" can hurt and alienate people who have no choice but to deal with real life problems that are being reflected in what they want to be their escapism. The comments by the OP merely took that natural alienation to the next level. I'm not saying you're a bigot; at least no more so than any of us who grew up in Western society-- it's a problem of blind-spots rather than willful bigotry.

Well...it's fandom. It's just one tiny insignificant aspect of life, just because people don't want that stuff in fandom doesn't always mean they don't give a shit otherwise. *shrugs* That's not my MO, though, and I'm not saying people who are like that are always right, because some of them actually DO say "I'm happy in my perfect world so I don't care about other people's problems now let me masturbate to my yaoi in peace" and that's just lame.

That said, though, I discovered a new favorite movie simply by analyzing the themes of sexism and change and revolution running rampant through it in women's studies class. =D So sometimes politics and fandom DO mix well. Just gotta find the balance and all that jazz.

...ugh, I SWORE I WOULDN'T GO FURTHER INTO THIS. >:[

Understandable. But for some people discussing the racism and sexism inherent in their hobbies is an important part of dealing with the issues in "the real world", and also of enjoying their hobby.

It's the same sort of defensive annoyance you get when you see anyone telling anyone else "stop talking about this in fandom". If someone's trying to shut down a conversation of any sort, it indicates a certain amount of, if not outright antipathy, annoyance with the topic which can make the people who are discussing it feel alienated and bothered. which, of course, is magnified when discussing touchy subjects like race, class, sex, and so on.

Hey, at least we're being civil? :D

*nod* Good point, I guess. Still don't entirely agree, so...agree to disagree?

Yeah. Once I cooled down I realized there were some comments like this worth discussing like a human being instead of a rabid dog.

Edited 2008-07-25 00:10 (UTC)

Oh. Well that explains it. Like

sarajayechan, I didn't really read all of it. I just saw "GTFO politics".

I know I'm a faghag but like I said, there's a time and a place for everything. And some things aren't really worth fighting for. (brb oppressing people)

Some people like politics. Some people are working through problems they have with the show to get back to a squeeing place. I think everything has it's place in fandom-- honest discussions of sexism, racism and homophobia should too.

I don't think anyone who chooses not to participate in those discussions is an idiot, but I do think anyone who wants to shut those discussions down is alienating people via implicit bigotry (of which, like I said to

sarajayechan, the OP's comments are a logical endpoint.) I don't think people agreeing with the OP are bigots perse-- except insofar as by saying "I don't think these subjects matter" a person will alienate a large swath of people who wrestle with said subjects daily and for whom they do matter.

I get what you're saying. I understand what you're saying.

What I don't understand is why people feel the need for the other way around -- fans who don't ACCEPT and TALK about the things are-are sexist/racist THEMSELVES OMG!~!! I don't think the OP's intentions is to alienate the political issue. I think they added that for that ~ironic twist~.

Except, as I said above, any time someone says "I wish people didn't talk about this in fandom" the people who talk about it will feel hurt and alienated. And it gets worse if you say "don't talk about racism (or whatever the political issue up for discussion is)" because not only will they feel alienated because you're telling them to stop having their interesting discussion, you're pretty much saying "I don't care about the topic of discussion".

And when you say "I don't care about racism/sexism/homophobia", well... it's a little bit touchier than saying "I don't care about this pairing."

If the OP was trying to be ~ironic~, she failed miserably and made herself look like a bigoted asshole instead.

I would rather not feel alienated because I don't want to talk about that particular topic.

Let me share to you what kind of ~political~ stuff that's plaguing one of my fandoms at this moment. (Insert disclaimer here.)

There's this boyband. At first there were 8 members to start off with. The company decides to add more so the end result was 13. For a while, all seems well. Then all of a sudden the company decides to add another member. GASP. He happens to be a talented violinist as well but that didn't matter. He was booed off stage. The fans chanted ONLY13 whenever he performed.

Things settled down. The company decided to add another one. This time, they went apeshit. They edited out him and the violinist out of pictures, airplane photos, music videos, even the music files itself.

Currently there are two sets of groups against one another. ONLY13 and the ones who support and like the two new members.

This... this stupid fight tore the fandom apart because of the simple opinion whether or not the two should be added to the group even though the fans really have no say and no power (despite what they think).

Maybe it's an extreme version of politics but I want to enjoy that fandom because of the dorky guys and homosexual context. Would you still think I'm alienating those who want to keep "fighting" over that nonsense? I'm sick and tired of it and it's emotionally draining.

(no subject)

ryuutchi.livejournal.com - 2008-07-25 01:05 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

baka-tenshi.livejournal.com - 2008-07-25 01:07 (UTC) - Expand

YES. THIS.

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