fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #567 ]

[ SECRET POST #567 ]

⌈ Secret Post #567 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #081.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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151. Isn't that just a little bit anti-evangelistic? I hate that, actually--people who believe in God can get all annoying and evangelistic and try to convert you and won't shut up about it, while people who don't believe in God won't shut up about how religious people are stupid and God doesn't exist and yadda yadda yadda.. My point: WHY DON'T YOU ALL SHUT UP? Religious people, stop trying to convert people! If they want to know about God, they will come to YOU. Atheists, stop trying to convince people that God doesn't exist, because guess what? THEY'LL NEVER BELIEVE YOU. And then we'll get this whole roundabout evangelistic vs. anti-evangelistic thing that will never end, and will ruin friendships and all sorts of stuff.

Point blank? You're not going to change anyone's minds, so WHY FUCKING SAY IT? STOP SUCKING UP MY PRECIOUS OXYGEN WITH YOUR STUPIDITY, ALL OF YOU.

As for you, 151.. If you want someone to feel sorry for you, instead of yelling at him about his beliefs just because you don't believe what he feels is right (and no, him saying, "I thank God every day for the opportunities he has given me" or something is NOT an evangelist act, so you would have no right to yell anything anyway), talk to someone about it and let them support you in your time of need instead of making futile efforts to take away someone else's religion.

Maybe he makes her as mad as she made you.

Even still, there's a LIMIT--if I saw her in public shouting, "GOD IS A LIE, YOUR RELIGION IS STUPID! HE WASN'T NICE TO ME!" I'd simply walk away. Same if I heard someone yelling, "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL WITHOUT RELIGION! ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST OR BURN FOR ETERNITY!" They all just need to shut up.

Tolerance. Tolerance is needed.

The world lacks it severely.

Religious people, stop trying to convert people! If they want to know about God, they will come to YOU.

The problem is, someone who believes that the Bible is the word of God and should be followed can't do that while being true to themselves, since the Bible commands Christians to do so. That being said, having an honest conversation about your beliefs and backing off when a person makes it clear they're not interested is far, far different than beating people over the head with your beliefs, which I don't think anyone should do--Christian, Athiest, Buddhist, whatever.

The problem is that that's what people do.

Coming from a very religious family, I know the rules of the Bible, and that you should 'spread the word of God,' but there's a huge difference between talking to people about it and trying to convert them as if they're wrong for what they believe, or for not believing.

Christians and Atheists.. They're all just too self-righteous, aren't they?

I know, and I agree that people of all beliefs take it way too far sometimes.

Well, I'm someone that's a pretty conservative Christian--I'm the daughter of missionaries, so...I'm probably coming from it from a slightly different perspective than you. (Although I'm not THAT conservative--my favorite manga has a demon as a protagonist and I don't think I'm going to Hell for something as inane as that.) I think what bugs me the most is that a lot of Christians seem to forget that the Bible says that nobody is perfect and everyone does bad things, including Christians. Christians should be humble and recognize their faults not prideful and boasting while putting others down. (Jesus even told PARABLES about that sort of thing, but some Christians still strut around like we're some sort of special chosen people with magical powers or something, which is just...so completely against the message of the Bible that it's insane to me.)

Pretty much every group has it's crazies...and it's reasonable people.

I completely agree with you. I have friends - good friends - who are practising Catholics and the subject of religion has never come up aside from "Oh, I'm this", yet I had (and I use the past tense for a reason), friends who were fundamentalist Satanists.

Pretty much every group has it's crazies...and it's reasonable people.
And that can relate to religion and fandom.

I don't know why the concept of fundamentalist Satanists should be so funny, but I lolled.

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blueutopiah.livejournal.com - 2008-07-25 22:28 (UTC) - Expand

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cdaae.livejournal.com - 2008-07-25 22:35 (UTC) - Expand

Oh, it completely relates to almost ALL grouping of people. Not just religion, not just fandom, it relates to countries, political beliefs, occupations...

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blueutopiah.livejournal.com - 2008-07-25 22:31 (UTC) - Expand

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freakyfanboy.livejournal.com - 2008-07-25 22:37 (UTC) - Expand

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blueutopiah.livejournal.com - 2008-07-25 22:39 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

freakyfanboy.livejournal.com - 2008-07-25 22:43 (UTC) - Expand

Also, there's the whole thing about not preaching in the marketplace.

No, I don't want someone to feel sorry for me. Like I said, I'm not looking to make him any less religious, but I feel like he shoves it down people's throats. I mean, a church service at ANext? What about all the other religions of the world? I think that, at least at anime conventions, most of the time, religion should be left at home.

If the religious service bugs you, why don't you just not go to it? Same thing for people who don't like yaoi, don't go to the yaoi panels. If you don't like lolita fashion don't go to the lolita tea party. It's pretty simple. He's a practicing Christian, I can see why he wouldn't want to miss church on Sunday even if he was at a con. And he's not FORCING people to go, so I don't see how it's shoving it down people's throats.

Is that what people hate about him? (I don't know much about Vic, just that apparently, everyone hates him.) Or, at least, is that what the OP is whining about? That a VA decided to have a Sunday service? That's a wonderful idea--I always felt bad that I had to miss church when I'd go to cons for a whole weekend.
And it just seems like more of what a Con is about--you go to find people who share your interests and all. Like you said, it's no different than having panels for other aspects of fandom, and it would be one more way to meet people.

People who get upset with annoying zealots forcing religion down their throats I empathise with. People who get upset with practising Christians for *gasp* practising make me lol.

Honestly, she's no different than if someone went to a yaoi panel for the sole purpose of standing up in the middle and yelling about how everyone at the panel would go to hell for liking homosexuality and that someone they knew had died of AIDS.

It's one of the more irrational reasons! He's also outspokenly anti-yaoi, which is another reason. Although generally, most of the things I've heard him say don't really go all THAT far. There's one thing I've heard secondhand, which, if he DID say it, is going too far--something about Fay being absolutely NOT gay, and he should know because he's the voice actor and knows everything, even though it's a CLAMP character--but besides that, for the most part he just has the audacity to...well, say what he believes. I do think that sometimes he doesn't know when to stop, and his fans are a little insane, which is why I don't really consider myself a fan of his anymore, but...I don't see how it's any different than, say, the voice actors who made an anti-war CD together. (Which, by the way, I think is cool of them to do if they want to do it. Since when is it not OK for people to say what they believe?)

Ah yeah, I remember hearing something about the anti-yaoi thing now.
Even the thing about Fay (dunno who that is) doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, depending on how he said it. It's no different than Fraser Hines saying he played Jamie as if Jamie were in love with Victoria, even though the writers didn't make that so (Doctor Who). (On the other hand, if it was the way you put it, then yeah, that's a big arrogant, but I can understand being freaked out. I was always amazed at how well the LotR actors handled things like being handed photomanips of them doing things to each other.) Honestly, if he's anti-yaoi and outspoken about it, I almost have to give him props, given how insane fandom is in general.

And honestly-honestly...I can't imagine a guy talking about how his faith relates to topic-at-hand is all that different from the uber-yaoi fangirls who make every single thing about pretty boys sexing.

Re: 151 OP

tenmorehours.livejournal.com - 2008-07-25 23:17 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 151 OP

blinkidybah.livejournal.com - 2008-07-26 03:24 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 151 OP

quackingly.livejournal.com - 2008-07-26 03:51 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 151 OP

crimsoncasanova.livejournal.com - 2008-07-28 02:38 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 151 OP

freakyfanboy.livejournal.com - 2008-07-28 06:07 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 151 OP

angathol.livejournal.com - 2008-07-28 11:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 151 OP

poisontea.livejournal.com - 2008-07-26 06:20 (UTC) - Expand

It's not the only reason. Just one of many.

People hate Vic because he uses his Christianity as an excuse to be homophobic. The actual Bible doesn't say that much about homosexuality, all the "old testament" passages are in Hebrew and the meaning is considered debatable even by some very serious Orthodox Jews, and many people manage to be Christian and even to not practise homosexuality without condemning other people for their loving relationships, trying to deny people basic human rights like marriage and being hateful or even bitching about yaoi.

What Christians need to do is stop tolerating this hateful bullshit. It is AN interpretation of your religion; it is not the ONLY interpretation. As long as decent Christians defend this behaviour...the innocent will be blamed along with the guilty by those who've been burnt by the flames. I know, believe me, my own religion has its share of people using it as an excuse to be hateful. The only good defence imnsho is to say "I don't believe that and I don't believe G-d wants it to be that way."

150 years ago there were Christians who used their religion to justify selling human beings. (There were also Jewish slave holders. Sin is universal.) This is not really any different.

Edited 2008-07-26 00:41 (UTC)

Re: 151 OP

ketita.livejournal.com - 2008-07-26 20:54 (UTC) - Expand

I work for a number of cons, and as far as I'm aware, no guest has ever ASKED to lead a service aside from Vic. If other religions want to be represented, they are free to be, but they need to step up and ask like Vic did. Saying OMG WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER RELIGIONZ doesn't really work when the other religions aren't interested in the first place.

this. thank you.

I'm far from a fan of Vic, but out of all the issues people bring against him, I feel that's definitely the most unreasonable. I mean, hell, I'm Christian, but I'd LOVE to see people of other faiths take initiative like Vic has.

He shoves it down people's throats by having a church service?

... Really? I think that's kind of bigoted of you, in all honesty. "What about all the other religions"? Well, if they want to have a church service, they're more than welcome to have their own. He doesn't belong to those religions... why should he have to set up little services for them, too?

And I get the feeling you wouldn't shock him as much as you think you would. :P Since shocking and upsetting him seems to be your goal, I think you'd be better off trying something a little less obvious than "Less than 100% of the world population is Christian!" I guarantee you, this man, whoever he is, is probably well aware of that fact. Come up with something better. Tell him you're gonna kill his dog and drink its blood. I bet that'd hurt him. Teach HIM to be a Christian when other people have lost their own faith, dammit! What nerve!

I think I'm the only person who agrees with you.

At least I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Oh well, not like I was expecting f!s to be all "YOU GO GIRL LOL".

There are religious services at SF cons all the time--at Baycon we have Jewish services too. There's nothing wrong with it as long as attendance is not mandatory and partisan prayers are not said at secular events.

I can't believe I'm posting on the already dead issue, but it seems to me that everyone has missed the point completely.

This poster said that God turned his back on him or her. That is not an atheist. I am an atheist. It doesn't bother me when people talk about their god any more than it annoys other people when I talk about Star Trek. Sure, I wish they would change the freakin' subject, but I don't believe that the Christian god exists any more than you believe that Captain Picard exists.

You have your fandom; I have mine. The only difference is, I don't expect the Next Gen crew to be waiting for me after I die.

This poster obviously BELIEVES deeply in the christian god, and thinks that he has not loved him/her like all the hype said he would.

I think we should stop raging at a person who is obviously raging at god, not Vic whoever the hell that guy is.

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