[ SECRET POST #4274 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4274 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 33 secrets from Secret Submission Post #612.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[tabaqui]

Same. I'm baffled. Yes, Anon - we get it. Slavery=bad. But in the context of the time, that is *not actually the point*.

[(Anonymous)]

How is that not the point of the Exodus

WHAT ELSE IS THE POINT OF THE EXODUS

[tabaqui]

The point of the *secret*.

[(Anonymous)]

The point of the secret is that OP finds Ramses sympathetic. Part of the reason that they find Ramses sympathetic is that he's in an "impossible situation". But that's not really something that fits, either with the movie or with the original narrative. And it's also not a framing of the situation that is consonant with modern morality. So a lot of people don't agree with it, and as a result, don't agree with OP's opinion.

I definitely don't see where the "historical accuracy" bit enters into the picture at all, to be honest. OP doesn't mention it, and it's definitely not coming from the movie, so...

[tabaqui]

The anon upthread kept insisting that nothing mattered because 'slavery is immoral'. Well -duh. We *already know that*. In fact, the anon upthread said 'you condone slavery', which is a friggin' leap and a half.

The secret maker felt bad for Ramses. Other anons agreed that Moses, coming to his brother (who thought of himself as a god), and saying 'my god says obey me', in *front of his subjects*, who also thought of Ramses as a god, was a poor choice. That it basically made it a forgone conclusion that Ramses couldn't agree to anything Moses wanted, because it would make him look weak, and make his dynasty and his rule look unstable and unworthy.

If Moses had talked to Ramses privately, explained to him, the way Ramses greeted Moses? He'd probably have worked out a way to let the Hebrews go while saving face, and thus not a) fomenting rebellion against his reign, b)making himself and thus his family/heirs look weak and unworthy, and c)getting himself/his family assassinated so as to put a 'real god/real ruler' on the throne.

And obviously, since the Egyptians kept the Hebrews slaves for years and years, it wasn't *that* big of a moral quandary to them, so expecting Ramses to suddenly see it as bad and wrong *in public*, while putting his reign and self in jeopardy, is kinda silly.

[(Anonymous)]

Other anons agreed that Moses, coming to his brother (who thought of himself as a god), and saying 'my god says obey me', in *front of his subjects*, who also thought of Ramses as a god, was a poor choice. That it basically made it a forgone conclusion that Ramses couldn't agree to anything Moses wanted, because it would make him look weak, and make his dynasty and his rule look unstable and unworthy.

There's a difference between, like, being imprudent and being wrong. Moses could have been more prudent, but he was not in the wrong because of it, and Ramses oughtn't to get the benefit of using that imprudence as an excuse.

The fact that slavery is morally wrong was not realized by the ancient Egyptians, but it is recognized by us (and by the movie in question), and I don't think that we ought to regard dynastic prestige as a good or satisfactory reason to keep people in slavery, or give any validity at all to that point of view. That's the way that Ramses (the character) might have seen it, but Ramses is always going to be in the wrong at that point, and it's hard for me to see how you're really going to find him sympathetic.

(if there are other reasons for finding Ramses sympathetic, sure, fair enough)(I mostly disagree about "impossible situation")

[(Anonymous)]

This is me, Tabaqui, not logged in.

No one, including myself, said that slavery was okay. No one, including me, said that morally, Ramses was in the right.

And I never said that I found Ramses to be sympathetic, I simply agreed with the other comments that Ramses was bound to refuse Moses because of the way that Moses approached him/the situation of Ramses reign and etc.

Reasons can be valid without being morally correct.

[(Anonymous)]

No one, including myself, said that slavery was okay. No one, including me, said that morally, Ramses was in the right.

I'm not saying that and I'm sorry if it came off that way!

And I never said that I found Ramses to be sympathetic, I simply agreed with the other comments that Ramses was bound to refuse Moses because of the way that Moses approached him/the situation of Ramses reign and etc. Reasons can be valid without being morally correct.

I would agree that it wasn't an approach that was likely to succeed, as far as that goes. I just don't think it's correct to call it a valid reason.

[(Anonymous)]

The movie established from the beginning that Rameses was under a lot of pressure and was worried about being the "weak link" in the dynasty, something he later repeats to Moses.

[(Anonymous)]

Is Exodus *really* about slavery being bad? Or that the suffering the Hebrews went through was bad?

Does Exodus really give a shit about other races?

[(Anonymous)]

little from column A, little from column B

[bur]

I really don't get this whole "slavery is bad" thing in context of the Bible since the Bible contains rules on how you should treat your slaves.

[(Anonymous)]

Ahem. The rules are about how to treat your *indentured servants*. Year 7 and you are done with them working for you. If they want to stay with you, you're supposed to lecture them for wanting to stay in bondage and then pierce their ears if they insist on staying.

...if I'm remembering Torah Study correctly.

[(Anonymous)]

It's bad if the Chosen People are enslaved, obviously! For a very long time in European history, you couldn't enslave fellow Christians, and that was that (Muslims had similar rules). It took race-based slavery to overturn that.