[ SECRET POST #4274 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4274 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 33 secrets from Secret Submission Post #612.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Right! The moralizing going on upthread is bizarre to me because this was an entirely different time and culture with different standards of morality.

[(Anonymous)]

The movie was made in 1998 actually

[(Anonymous)]

...portraying an entirely different time and culture with different standards of morality.

[philstar22]

If we want to judge by the standards of the times, the Hebrews had been invited to Egypt as guests originally. Even by the standards of the time enslaving them was wrong, and Moses working to free his own people was right.

[(Anonymous)]

The movie isn't, like, a serious anthropological examination of ancient Egyptian culture. It's a kids' movie about a story from the Bible. And it's also not really one that sides with the Egyptians - Moses is the protagonist, we sympathize with him, Ramses is generally presented as being, not a villain, but certainly overly proud and in the wrong. OP was the one who described Ramses, in the movie (not in history or mythology), as being placed in "an impossible situation" by the demand to free the Hebrew slaves. Since they happened to bring it up, I don't agree with them or their characterization of the movie that was made in 1998.

[tabaqui]

Same. I'm baffled. Yes, Anon - we get it. Slavery=bad. But in the context of the time, that is *not actually the point*.

[(Anonymous)]

How is that not the point of the Exodus

WHAT ELSE IS THE POINT OF THE EXODUS

[tabaqui]

The point of the *secret*.

[(Anonymous)]

The point of the secret is that OP finds Ramses sympathetic. Part of the reason that they find Ramses sympathetic is that he's in an "impossible situation". But that's not really something that fits, either with the movie or with the original narrative. And it's also not a framing of the situation that is consonant with modern morality. So a lot of people don't agree with it, and as a result, don't agree with OP's opinion.

I definitely don't see where the "historical accuracy" bit enters into the picture at all, to be honest. OP doesn't mention it, and it's definitely not coming from the movie, so...

[(Anonymous)]

Is Exodus *really* about slavery being bad? Or that the suffering the Hebrews went through was bad?

Does Exodus really give a shit about other races?

[(Anonymous)]

little from column A, little from column B

[bur]

I really don't get this whole "slavery is bad" thing in context of the Bible since the Bible contains rules on how you should treat your slaves.

[type_wild]

Weeell, within the universe of the film, the slavery and the genocide are pretty firmly established as evilwrong things at which any GOOD person should be apalled. Moses is apalled, Moses is good.

Personally, I never bought that an ancient egyptian prince would give more than zero fucks about slaves being murdered en masse. But the film is ultimately about a hero who thinks like a 21st C person, because yeah precious mythology and most kids aren't read on historically accurate descriptions of the morals of way-back-when.

[(Anonymous)]

I think another important piece is that the original story doesn't have any real historical truth (or at least, there's no extra-biblical evidence that the events took place, and it's hard to see how they could have done so). It's a Hebrew myth where the Egyptians are straight-up the bad guys.

[(Anonymous)]

Moses was only appalled when he discovered he was really a Hebrew himself.

[type_wild]

what drives him away from his family was the revelation that his father comitted genocide- and thinking about it, he never really does take a stance on slavery as such - he starts identifying with the hebrews.

[(Anonymous)]

Genocide of his people, which he just found out he was earlier that day.

[(Anonymous)]

This. He was pretty content to benefit off the work of the slaves until he found out his history. I don't remember him being appalled when Ramses gave him Tzipporah either (embarrassed, maybe, but not horrified).

[(Anonymous)]

And how is God killing the firstborns any better than what Seti did?

[tabaqui]

The fact that 'god' was happy to kill newborn babies (and tons of other people, too, in the other plagues) was another brick in the wall that made me an atheist. I mean...really? Slaughtering babies is good, i'm the hero?

No way.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

I get what you're saying,but I dunno I never got the idea he was happy to do it, I mean, it was the last plague and if you look at all the plagues they kinda ...build up.

Its definitely fucked up to do, but I guess I always saw/taught it as a thing of more, "See how shitty and awful this is for you? well THAT'S what you did to these other people when you ordered the death of a bunch of Hebrew firstborns to 'cut down the numbers'.

[cakemage]

Yeah, that and basically the entire book of Job were a huge part of my decision to leave Christianity. Ultimately, I couldn't reconcile the idea of the "perfect, all-knowing, all-loving God" I'd been told to worship from birth (my grandfather was a famous minister and my parents were missionaries) with the God who slaughtered countless innocents just to punish their parents or worse, just to make a point, in the case of Job. Or the God who often allowed the Israelites to take their own conquered enemies as slaves (or at least the women and children), or who would just as often tell them to just slaughter their enemies to the last infant and burn their lands to ashes. Or who will casually send you to Hell to burn and be tortured for eternity if you don't worship him, or sometimes even if you do, just not in the right way. Because God loves everyone.

[(Anonymous)]

And! Fun fact! The ancient Egyptians didn’t actually have slaves.

[(Anonymous)]

Is this one of those things where people get very involved about the precise, specific definition of "slavery"

I know they didn't have slaves building the pyramids, but that doesn't mean there were no slaves at all

[(Anonymous)]

It may be 'fun' but it's incorrect. They absolutely did.