[ SECRET POST #4274 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4274 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 33 secrets from Secret Submission Post #612.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[type_wild]

Weeell, within the universe of the film, the slavery and the genocide are pretty firmly established as evilwrong things at which any GOOD person should be apalled. Moses is apalled, Moses is good.

Personally, I never bought that an ancient egyptian prince would give more than zero fucks about slaves being murdered en masse. But the film is ultimately about a hero who thinks like a 21st C person, because yeah precious mythology and most kids aren't read on historically accurate descriptions of the morals of way-back-when.

[(Anonymous)]

I think another important piece is that the original story doesn't have any real historical truth (or at least, there's no extra-biblical evidence that the events took place, and it's hard to see how they could have done so). It's a Hebrew myth where the Egyptians are straight-up the bad guys.

[(Anonymous)]

Moses was only appalled when he discovered he was really a Hebrew himself.

[type_wild]

what drives him away from his family was the revelation that his father comitted genocide- and thinking about it, he never really does take a stance on slavery as such - he starts identifying with the hebrews.

[(Anonymous)]

Genocide of his people, which he just found out he was earlier that day.

[(Anonymous)]

This. He was pretty content to benefit off the work of the slaves until he found out his history. I don't remember him being appalled when Ramses gave him Tzipporah either (embarrassed, maybe, but not horrified).

[(Anonymous)]

And how is God killing the firstborns any better than what Seti did?

[tabaqui]

The fact that 'god' was happy to kill newborn babies (and tons of other people, too, in the other plagues) was another brick in the wall that made me an atheist. I mean...really? Slaughtering babies is good, i'm the hero?

No way.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

I get what you're saying,but I dunno I never got the idea he was happy to do it, I mean, it was the last plague and if you look at all the plagues they kinda ...build up.

Its definitely fucked up to do, but I guess I always saw/taught it as a thing of more, "See how shitty and awful this is for you? well THAT'S what you did to these other people when you ordered the death of a bunch of Hebrew firstborns to 'cut down the numbers'.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

This is Tabaqui, not logged in.

That...really does not make it better. 'I'm not *happy* about killing babies, but i''m gonna do it!! I have *so much power*, I can turn a river to blood and make the sky go dark at noon, but I won't use that power in any way other than to kill babies.'

Yeah, awesome. 'God' is apparently vengeful and petty, and likes to fuck people over 'just cause'. Yucko.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

That's totally fair.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Especially since, as per the Bible, God literally hardened Ramses' heart Himself.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

And does anyone remember Job? Like. That shit was *fucked up*.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Definitely agree that the plagues built up. They were a warning ("stop the bad thing you're doing or things will get worse") and in the movie movie Moses even begged Ramses to change his mind before the last plague because he knew it would be something terrible.

I don't know where people get the idea that God is either heroic or petty. God just is. Ascribing human emotions and motivations to an omniscient deity is kind of missing the point.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

IDK, there are two disinctly different versions of God in the bible. The vengeful type, mostly found in the OT and the merciful one, usually in the NT. It's actually pretty telling for the time the stories originated in and the surrounding cultures/understandings of what Gods do and don't do.

Re: DA

[tree_and_leaf]

The vengeful type, mostly found in the OT and the merciful one, usually in the NT.

That's anti-semitic bullshit. I mean, I'm a Christian, but there is tonnes about God's mercy in the Hebrew Bible/ OT, and Revelation and some of Jesus' teaching on judgement is pretty damn smitey.

[cakemage]

Yeah, that and basically the entire book of Job were a huge part of my decision to leave Christianity. Ultimately, I couldn't reconcile the idea of the "perfect, all-knowing, all-loving God" I'd been told to worship from birth (my grandfather was a famous minister and my parents were missionaries) with the God who slaughtered countless innocents just to punish their parents or worse, just to make a point, in the case of Job. Or the God who often allowed the Israelites to take their own conquered enemies as slaves (or at least the women and children), or who would just as often tell them to just slaughter their enemies to the last infant and burn their lands to ashes. Or who will casually send you to Hell to burn and be tortured for eternity if you don't worship him, or sometimes even if you do, just not in the right way. Because God loves everyone.

[(Anonymous)]

Tabaqui, not logged in.

All of this. It is all so damn grotesque. And I never really could make the 'leap of faith' - there's some all-knowing, all-powerful being out there that lets children starve to death and lets murderers go free? And it's all 'god's will' and be happy with what you get? And I'm supposed to look up to this being and love and respect them?

No fucking thank you. My sunday school teacher telling us in like...fifth grade that 'African babies' that never heard of 'god' would go to hell pretty much sealed my fate. I mean...no fucking way.

[soldatsasha]

This thread is pretty interesting to me, bc Prince of Egypt is one of my favorite animated movies, and looking back was probably a major driving force behind me questioning Abrahamic doctrine and becoming an atheist. (That and Jesus Christ Superstar, bc poor old Judas.) It's a lot easier to see just how fucked up god is when it's broken down into simple cartoon format.

Like, if he actually cared about the Hebrews why did he harden Rameses' heart? Why bother with the plagues at all? Even if we're assuming they're meant to be some sort of "justice" against the Egyptians, not every person slaughtered or maimed was guilty and the trauma that had to have been inflicted on the Hebrews would have been intense. Imagine being a housekeeping slave for some wealthy family, and when you finally are freed it's to the sight of fireballs raining down on the plague-stricken corpses of their children. Imagine hiking over the bodies and debris out of town to meet up with the other Hebrews in the exodus, all to the sounds of the screams and wails of the majority of people in the country. Even if you were happy to be freed, I would imagine most slaves would think the plagues were a little excessive. Like, their god is supposedly all powerful and he couldn't come up with a better way to free the Hebrews than mass genocide in various horrifying ways?

The fact that god hardens Rameses's heart is just icing on the cake.

[tabaqui]

THIS. All this 'i'm shall test you' crap. All this 'you have to *work* to earn my divine intervention and wow, I'm gonna make it *suck*!!'

I despise the Job story, always have, and that's just one of the gross things 'god' did.

I get collective memory, origin myths, explaining lightning and plague and trying to 'out god' your neighbor so you seem more fierce, better represented, top of the heap.

But for people to still, after all this time, cling to those stories as if they actually happened and are *just dandy* really creeps me out.

Especially when they blah blah about Jesus in one breath, and in the other use something 'he' never said to keep women down or to justify their hate. Screw that.

(I get a little salty when it comes to organized religion. I thought the movie was awesome: gorgeous music, loved the style of it, just really cool. And the Charleston Heston movie, the moment when the 'angel of death' came down? Scared the fuck out of me as as kid. But to make that leap and believe it was all true? Never happened for me, and most of the stuff i was taught or read just made me more determined to keep away.)