fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #589 ]

[ SECRET POST #589 ]

⌈ Secret Post #589 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 25 pages, 619 secrets from Secret Submission Post #085.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Is it not possible that he (I assume the poster is a he) dislikes female characters because he can a) not relate to them because he is a man and b) realizes that they're not real, so he has no interest in persuing them romantically? Because either of those would consistute 'dislike' without him having 'issues'.

Excuse me, but I happen to see those as issues. If the only reason he doesn't dislike real women is because he might have an interest in pursuing them romantically, I would call that an issue. I would also say if he can't relate to women because he's not one, he has an issue.

But we're not talking about real women, we're talking about *fictional* women. Maybe he feels that fictional women aren't portrayed realistically, or he simply doesn't find them worth the effort because *they're not real.*

And honest to god, have you ever even *talked* to a straight man? We might as well be different species, our inability to relate to the opposite gender is so prominant.

Wow. That's...wow. You've been talking to some fucked up sets of XY chromosomes.

I've been talking to *men.* *Real* men. Not some fantasy.

You've been talking to assholes. They're not the same thing as real men. Really.

So, they can't relate to women or understand them, and yet still accept them as human beings, and that makes them assholes?

The sexes don't understand each other. We never have. Heck, that's where the whole "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" thing comes from. We can't completely relate to each other becasue we're very different. We're *wired* differently. So you can't really blame a guy for not wanting to go to the same trouble to connect with fictional women as he does with a real one.

Yeah, right. Men and women aren't that different, and yes, men and women can generally understand each other. We're all human, and our naughty bits don't change the fact that we, as humans, have 99% of things in common and 1% of things that make us 'different.' Same for race, ethnicity, and whatever. You may as well replace 'man' and 'woman' with 'white' and 'black.'

Anyone who says otherwise is making up excuses for society's tendency to group people and make 'others' feel like outsiders. Like you, for example. Men feel sad when something upsetting happens, men have hobbies, men feel happy when people love them, and men have human bodies that have the requisite organs to sustain life. And guess what?

Women do too.

That, and you're obviously ignoring people who don't fit into 'man' or 'woman.' What, do you think you're cool because you've hit upon some 'real' men who refuse to relate to women and other different humans in fictional portrayals? Head's up--you're not. You're not a special snowflake, and the things you're saying now have been said a million times. And they've been disproved a million times over, too.

Yes. Yes, they are. If they can't relate to or understand half of all human beings, they are assholes.

We DO understand each other. We may not always have, but there's never been any biological reason for us not too, and nowadays, plenty of men and women do understand and relate to each other. We're not wired that differently. I CAN blame a guy for viewing connecting to a character as troublesome just because she's female. That is sexism at its finest - fundamentally viewing men and women as different. We're not. Stop thinking we are.

And before you say it, I've talked to straight men. A lot of them. Tons. I went to a school that had 3 men for every woman. Made a lot of male friends there, and never once encountered a guy who, in discussing common interests with him, was unable or even less likely to relate to a female character. And the ones who were my friends? Understood me. That's how it should be.

You know, re-reading the secert, it seems that he's more put-out because he dislikes *certain* female characters, and when he expresses this dislike, being labeled sexist or a misogynist. So this entire argument is just stupid. (Which is good, because it's gotten so twisted around that I'm not even sure what we're arguing about anymore.)

Yes, the sexes can understand each other. Most well-adjusted people have little problem relating to someone on a base level regardless of their sex, age, gender, race, ethnicity, location, and many other factors.

Humans are humans. No matter what you or anyone else says, we're far more alike than we are different, and it's unfortunate that people will pick the very, very small differences in us to set everyone apart instead of looking at the whole picture. We should celebrate the differences, and not use them as an excuse to remain ignorant and not bother.

"We should celebrate the differences"

So why are we beating up on this guy who doesn't like female characters? That makes him different, it makes him unique and special. Why not celebrate that difference and let him enjoy the characters he likes, instead of slapping him with such a vicious label?

(Besides all that, I reread his secert and am starting to seriously suspect that we're all missing the point here...)

Uh, no. You missed the point. I understood the secret, rolled my eyes, and moved on because I don't really care if someone doesn't like some female characters.

I replied to you.

Because your defense of what you thought the secret meant was, frankly, the stupidest thing I've heard since secret 126.

No, none of us are missing the point. You are. I'm not going to celebrate someone being different when what makes them different is their negative attitude about entire chunks of the world's population, including their fictional portrayals.

FYI? You don't know it's a guy. Most of the hate directed at female characters is by way of female readers, and yes, they're referred to as misogynists and sexists as well. Your entire argument (which is flimsy at best) is based around an uninformed assumption you're making about the creator of the secret. Sheesh.

word x 1000000

Okay, the "men are from mars, women are from venus" thing is pure bullshit.

And hell, a lot of women really like fictional male characters! If it was really just a question of the sexes not being able to relate to each other, you would think you'd see an equal number of women who just didn't like fictional men, and that's obviously not the case. so....men who don't like fictional women on principle because they're women are sexist pigs.

Besides, as other people have pointed out, we don't know for sure the secret-maker is a guy. Women can spew misogynist bullcrap, too.

Real men who are assholes, maybe.

Guys can relate to girls. It's true. I've seen it happen. I've had male friends who related to me just fine. And I'm pretty sure they were real. I could touch them and everything.

hahahaha.

Ah, people like you make me wonder how we even progressed past the 1910s. You're being entirely shameful to both men and women. Why don't you call in a few 'men' and see what they think about your opinions on how all of their minds work? Since you know everything about 'real men,' and all.

Hint: Real men don't like for little LJ users to speak for the whole of the male gender, especially when what you're saying is not only untrue, but makes them look bad.

So, here's a message from all real men out there:

Shut the hell up.

Do you think about what you type before you type it? Seriously. I realize very much that fictional characters aren't real, but if you can't relate to a fictional character on the grounds of her gender, that indicates a real world issue. Reread what you wrote before. You said that maybe the male reader couldn't relate to a female character because of her gender, and because she wasn't real, didn't see her as a potential romantic interest. Got that? You didn't say that he couldn't work up an interest in her just because she wasn't real, you said that she wasn't real, ergo not a potential romantic/sexual interest, ergo not of any relevant interest at all because he can't get over the fact that she had different socialization and anatomy.

If a man doesn't like, or have an interest in, many female characters because he can't sympathize with them for actual reasons of personality. Maybe because women are more likely to be portrayed as jealous, or having bipolar levels of hot/cold responses, and he wouldn't be able to relate to a male character with the same characterization, I can respect that. On the other hand, if he would like them, then he's a sexist at best, and a flaming misogynist at worst.

Now, it is possible that this is just an unfortunate case of poor word choice. In which case... I'm still failing to see your point. Fictional men aren't real either, and somehow, he got over it.

Perhaps they are worth the effort on the grounds of shared anatomy, hm?

And yes, thank you, I have talked to a number of real, live, actual straight men. And I'd thank you not to be projecting this kind of douchebaggery on them, because some of them were perfectly capable of relating to women as fellow human beings. Neither gender nor orientation excuse a total lack of empathy, believe it or not.

I have quite a few male friends, as well as female friends. I don't relate to the men on every single issue involving sexuality and gender relations. Then again, I don't relate to a lot of women well on those issues, either, since I want neither children nor a monogamous relationship.

Your ideas about men and women being "separate species" are right out of the 19th century. How do you classify men who are "feminine" (tender-minded, artistic, into aesthetics) and women who are "masculine" (tough-minded, mechanically inclined, not into aesthetics) — as "not real men" or "not real women"?

Gender isn't a binary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_binary). We're not two different species. People who think they can't relate to half the human race because of different genital configurations are limiting their own life experiences considerably. I suggest you get out of whatever Neanderthal social circles you travel in and meet some men who can do more than grunt, scratch their balls, watch sports, and work on their trucks.

haven't been around fandom long, have you? most of the female character hate comes from women.

Then why would he be afraid of being labeled as a misogynist? Women are very rarely labeled misogynists for disliking other women, as it's generally assumed that they just don't like how females are portrayed or something like that.

What no. Women can be misogynist, and at least in this community, if someone thinks a woman is being misogynist or sexist they say so. Please look at the responses to 126.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #589 ]

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