[ SECRET POST #589 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #589 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 25 pages, 619 secrets from Secret Submission Post #085.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: 174

[geministar01.livejournal.com]

Considering that "fandom feminist" is the term I use for people who act like that (because there just *isn't* a good term to use for it, you should *see* the fallout from some of my other posts about what I used to call them) yes, I do believe that "fandom feminists" are going to be as fiercely defensive and whiny as Steph Brown's fans.

Real feminists, on the other hand, are the ones who promote equality with a reasonable argument and understanding. They don't bitch about how high-heeled boots are the bane of feminine empowerment or cry 'victim' and 'misogynyst' every time a heroine gets into (and out of) some sort of trouble. They make clear, concise arguments about the things that are really important and know when a story element is just a god-damn story element.

Re: 174

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Real feminists, on the other hand, are the ones who promote equality with a reasonable argument and understanding. They don't bitch about how high-heeled boots are the bane of feminine empowerment or cry 'victim' and 'misogynyst' every time a heroine gets into (and out of) some sort of trouble. They make clear, concise arguments about the things that are really important and know when a story element is just a god-damn story element.

And those feminists, when they apply themselves to fandom, tend to refer to themselves as "fandom feminists."

I don't know what else you tried to call them, but you're still inadvertantly painting everyone with the same brush. The way I see it, you shouldn't be complaining about feminists at all - just the arguments that you find superflous, ridiculous or demeaning.

Re: 174

[geministar01.livejournal.com]

What I'm complaining about are the people who call themselves 'feminists' and then use those superflous, ridiculous and demeaning arguments. It's nearly to address the arguments without adressing the people who are making them, especially when it seems to be an entire mindset.

I've tried every term I can think of. Can't called the "Womyn" without offending the part of the non-nutso feminists who take that term seriously. Can't call them "fandom feminists" or "comic book feminists" without including "Feminazis" was just a disaster, and I somehow doubt that "feminuts" is going to be any better. There's just *nothing* to call them that doesn't include somebody who doesn't belong under the term.

Re: 174

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Then don't call them anything. Address the arguments you have issue with instead of trying to categorize the people who are making those arguments.

Re: 174

[jlh.livejournal.com]

Thank you for pointing out the problems here! ITA with all you've said.

Re: 174

[bofoddity.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say that this comment rocks.

Re: 174

[felinephoenix.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

Re: 174

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. Categorizing people who are making bad or ridiculous arguments under some kind of umbrella merely allows you to dismiss them with a wave of your hand instead of actually pointing out where their arguments fail. The more that you do that without resorting to "naming" them, the more that the kind of argument you prefer will be circulated. If you keep your argument on that level you'll find you'll be listened to more often.

In addition, if you don't understand that in a society with a marked power differential biases "for" and biases "against" are not the same thing and cannot be treated the same (not unlike that old bugbear 'reverse racism' which hello, does not exist) then you need to rethink the arguments. Given that men and women don't start on an even playing field, the biases cannot be treated in the same way.