fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #595 ]

[ SECRET POST #595 ]

⌈ Secret Post #595 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #085.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - what ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

103. I wonder if you would bother to explain your point as I can only see the truth in that to a degree.

107. "HE'S A FUCKING RIGHT WING FASCIST..." ... and that's why you love him so much?

114. Ahahahaha. That song came out when I was 14 and loved that band. I was definitely guilty of that sin. Probably still guilty. Thanks, nostalgia factor!

133. If they're singing, dancing Nazis, there's no shame in it, right? ... right?

138. In gym class, when I was younger, I used to do his victory pose with a tennis racket as my buster sword.

160. I'm secretly hoping they dub over all the actor's voices.

171. ... I don't think people like you belong in this section of the internet. I mean, just sayin'.

179. This was so lazy! I bet it'll work.

185. Because it's the oppression olympics to them and your solidarity as "sisterhood" trumps your feelings about racism. I would wholly recommending shouting down anyone who calls you sexist. People should listen to your reasoning.

193. YES. THE COMEDIAN HAD THOSE SCARS BEFORE ANYONE ELSE IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD.

TooBig#3: WHy do you think it will never happen? I don't know if he's going to Yama's man, but thus far I'm pretty sure he isn't Aizen's man. Nothing foreshadows good (or at least a double-crossing) like a palpable aura of evil.

Why? o_o

Paris Hilton is anathema to us. She is vampire to our werewolf. We could never stop hating, even if we wanted to. We have been bred for this purpose. It is only instinct that we bare our fangs at those with tans and bleached hair, clutching our sidebags to keep our precious manga and pirated DVDs away from the stilleto-wearing threat.

This is how it is and how it must always be.

I'd like you to know that you're cracking me up, over here.

Edited 2008-08-23 06:45 (UTC)

You're not in the fandom. Trust me, a lot of the Maya hate is pretty much flat-out sexism. (A recent comment in a post by a friend referred to Maya going to the "Niki school of whoredom." Think about that. Niki was faithful to her husband-- who was in prison for years. She just happened to be an internet stripper-- to make money to send her kid to school. Yeah.)

Okay. But that doesn't make the OP's complaint invalid, does it?

It doesn't, but calling what people do when they say "hey, you're beginning to sound racist/sexist when you bitch about her" 'Oppression Olympics' devalues the discussion of said problems in fandom. Especially when you're not in the fandom to see what exactly the OP is discussing.

People who refer to Maya as a whore, slut, or anything else of the sort need to be beaten unconscious with a dictionary. She kissed Sylar and now she's going to be in a relationship with Mohinder -- so that makes her a whore how exactly? Hell, Mohinder is more of a whore than she is, since she'll be his third love interest (Mira, Eden). And don't even get me started on Peter and Nathan's womanizing tendencies. Why doesn't fandom attack them en masse?

:( It bothers me with all the female characters. There's a much higher "purity" standard. It's okay if Nathan womanizes, it's okay for Peter to sleep with another man's girlfriend, but Niki is a whore for stripping to pay her bills, or for sleeping with Nathan while under the control of her alternate personality. Maya's a sex-kitten for falling for a guy who's had trauma similar to hers, and saved her life.

But not all of it is sexism. But as soon as any complaint against her is leveled, then it's automatic yellow card for misogyny in any public space--especially in this comm. I've been told I'm fucking racist against myself because I don't love her to bits and pieces and don't want to just give her another chance since the writers really mean well and don't do any awful racial stuff at all.

it's automatic yellow card for misogyny in any public space--especially in this comm.

I find that utterly mystifying. Yes, there are a number of Maya supporters in this comm, but the rest of the internet? I see foaming-at-the-mouth Maya hatred practically everywhere, and outside of this comm I've never once seen any of the haters accused of misogyny or racism or anything of the sort. Seriously, please tell me what part of fandom you're inhabiting, because I'd rather be in there than in the part where people bash her ceaselessly and no one bats an eyelash.

It's a problem, yes, but I don't think it's oppression olympics, or solidarity in sisterhood. It's people seeing a very real pattern and possibly overgeneralizing (you may want to reread what you say about her, though. Sexism and racism are tied together, so when you say "these racist characteristics bother me", sexist assumptions can sneak in without you realizing that's what other people might take from it. Not that you are sexist, but that sexism can color the issue, either on your end or the other person's.)

That's cuuuute. :B

The second part of the secret is the important part, not the first. Do a fic with an OFC and see how long it takes for someone to call her as Mary Sue.

Or, if you give her some realistic flaws, call you a misogynist or label her moe or something equally batshit. I totally hear you.

Oooooh! Then I definitely see where you're coming from and I'm in complete agreement.

I'm going to make off with the secret and repost it (unless the OP sees this and objects!) - could I quote your succinct analysis as well?

That's not "succinct analysis", that's stupid as all hell. Rather quote this (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/191012.html?thread=76887588#t76887588) or this (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/191012.html?thread=76944676#t76944676), it's certainly more accurate.

I'm not sure you realize that all three of those posts are "analyzing" different things.

Knock yourself out. Where are you posting it, if I may?

seeingred. I'm reading a little bit about intersectionality right now, and I'd like to use the secret as a talking point.

I'd like to point out that calling out racism and sexism in fandom is not "Oppression Olympics" (the term is generally used when someone is saying "you've been oppressed? I'm being oppressed more!" which is not what was occurring here.) someone saying "I dislike Maya because she's a racist caricature" and someone else responding with "you're sexist" is more an example of people talking at cross-purposes, where each one is seeing patterns, but they're seeing different patterns and miscommunicating what they're seeing because they assume the other person also sees the same pattern.

That's a good point. Gracious, too, giving peeps the benefit of that doubt. Grace is pretty rare in online discussions of representation. :)

My point was that responding back to complaints about racism with "you're just being sexist" implies that it is more important to judge her as a woman first and everything else second. It's saying "it doesn't matter if it's racist, you should support her as a woman, that's where your loyalties should lie."

But it's not. It's two people seeing different patterns. One person is seeing patterns of racism in media, and the other patterns of sexism in fandom. If person A says "I dislike this character (because racist pattern C)" and person B says "You're being sexist (because you're slotting into sexist pattern D)" that's not oppression olympics, nor is it saying sexism is more important. They're two different patterns in two different media-- the person B is seeing sexism in fan responses to the character-- and may, to be fair, have unfairly slotted person A into the pattern-- so they're coming at the entire idea of the character from an entirely different perspective. Person B is making an argument person A is not prepared for because B is looking at the fandom response rather than the medium of the show itself.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #595 ]

no subject

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