[ SECRET POST #4328 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4328 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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02.


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03.
[The Red Green Show]


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04.
[Overwatch]


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05.


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06. [SPOILERS for The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina]



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07. [SPOILERS for The Haunting of Hill House]











Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #619.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Why do those points need to be made.

[(Anonymous)]

Because we live in a society.

[(Anonymous)]

Still not seeing the necessity.

[(Anonymous)]

Because fandom isn't just a bunch of stories produced out of some kind of magical ether. Fandom is a subculture involving a lot of people who talk about a lot of things from a lot of viewpoints, and also produce a lot of fanfic. If people are going to be interacting and talking, sometimes that's going to involve argument, and sometimes that's going to involve people saying things that are worthy of critique, and you should be able to critique those things.

I'm not saying that you personally have to take part in, or be exposed to, or pay attention to any of it (although I personally believe that you should). But, yeah, IDK, that's how it seems to me, anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

You're still not telling us why these points need to be made.

Other than someone wants to make them, in which case, fair enough.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, first of all, people do want to make the points. And it's a good thing in general, to the extent that we want to be better people ourselves and we want fandom to be better, because that's the only way that we can get there. At the end of the day, it comes down to the fact that fandom exists in the world, the same as anything else, and that fandom people are real people.

Again, at the same time, it is fandom, and it shouldn't be that serious, and people shouldn't be asses about any of it, and people shouldn't use it as an excuse to be cruel or harmful, and no one should compel you to pay attention to it or to do fandom differently, and all social media platforms should make it easy to control how much interaction you have with The Discourse and set your own preferences. I think all of those things are true at the same time.

[(Anonymous)]

DA. There are conversations that fandom needed to have (like the ones that set off making trigger and content warnings more prevalent.) Most of these listed here are just bullshit arguments made because the other fan has too much time on their hands.

[(Anonymous)]

Except fiction is just that - fiction. It isn't hurting anyone. I'm really not into incest, personally, but if someone else wants to write it, you know what? That's absolutely fine, because I don't have to read it. We can both coexist in the same space with no issues whatsoever.

[(Anonymous)]

I am not arguing against the fiction existing, at all.

But fandom isn't just fanfiction existing in a vacuum. It's all the other interactions that fans have, too, all the conversations and theories and meta and discussion. And that - to me - is where these issues arise more, and where they should be talked about (although not in a way that's dickish or obstreperous).

[(Anonymous)]

are you

defending the rabidly anti-nuance "NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO LIKE IMPURE THINGS, KILL YOURSELF PEDO" contingent because "other interactions that fans have" are issues that need to be talked about?????

Please reread the secret. Yeah, there are moral meta issues in fandom with some substance (like the original racefail) that shouldn't be suppressed. "VILLAIN FANS ARE EVIL" might sound like a strawman if you haven't run into it, but it is 100% accurate to a regrettably popular mindset right now. And it does not have either truth value, more value, or social/cultural value. Fandom and fans would be better without it. Purity culture crusaders need to get a fucking grip on the difference between fiction and reality and a respect for the actual complexities of the relationship between the two for thier contributions to those conversations to be remotely worthwhile.

[(Anonymous)]

defending the rabidly anti-nuance "NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO LIKE IMPURE THINGS, KILL YOURSELF PEDO" contingent because "other interactions that fans have" are issues that need to be talked about?????

Nothing that the OP said in the secret is specific to KILL YOURSELF PEDO. OP presented a very general set of scenarios.

I think it's harder than people think - in general - to differentiate between what's rabid and what's reasonable. If you do a bad job with it, you run a serious risk of throwing the good out with the bad. And that's especially true when you fail to differentiate between the things. When you just present a bunch of apparently-reasonable things and just expect everyone to assume that the people involved are totally actually completely rabid and insane. Again, nothing OP said implies that they're talking specifically about "purity culture crusaders who say everyone is evil". Calling people an edgelord certainly doesn't. It's a little rude, maybe, but to say that everyone who calls someone else an edgelord is "rabidly anti-nuance" is fucking absurd.

It's true that over-reactive purity crusade wankery is regretally popular right now. But it's also true that people overreact to what are actually entirely legitimate criticisms, and blow up and act like martyrs on the cross. Don't act like that doesn't happen, too. Like there aren't people who think that any criticism, or anything to do with social justice, is automatically and immediately wrong. Tons of em.

[(Anonymous)]

DA. Several people have been reported to the FBI for writing fic, and people have tried to report AO3 as a whole to the FBI multiple times now.

Not only that, there are people in this crowd who literally call two adults with a small age gap (some as small as two years) "pedophilia."

They've tried to call out and shame teens having crushes on teens as "pedophiles."

This is to say nothing of the doxxing, sending CSA and gore to people, or how they'll result to actual slurs against staff they don't like. (Calling Bex Taylor-Klaus from Voltron a "dyke" and talking about taking a gun and shooting her, hoping that Lauren Montgomery gets raped, and saying Josh was a pedophile to his own children because he'd made Sheith jokes before come to mind.)

These are not the kinds of people you should be defending. It doesn't matter if "these conversations need to be had" because these people are ruining the conversations. Often they're too young to understand the nuance of the feminism they're spewing and it's reduced to bastardized buzzwords used to bully people. In worst case scenarios, they're groomed by extremeists.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Nothing against you personally, anon. I think your heart's in the right place, but I need to vent about one thing you said: No, they really don't NEED to be made. You choose to make them, or you choose not to make them. You have every right to do so; however, under no circumstance am I, or anyone else, obligated to care. Keep the discourse in your spaces and among people who care and you're golden; however, unless you've got permission, bringing those lovely "discussions" to anyone else's space is kind of like spontaneously walking into a random facebook friend's room, flopping onto their bed and masturbating with bravado. Why?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

It's not exclusively one side or the other's responsibility to keep in one place. It's the responsibility of the people talking about it to do so in a way that's possible to filter, and it's just as much the responsibility of the people who don't want to talk about it to carve out their own space (not to mention the responsibility of the people who maintain the websites to build social interaction mechanisms that aren't fundamentally dysfunctional). Figuring out how to do this stuff in a way that works for everyone is a negotiation.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

That's fair. So far I take responsibility for carving out my own space by refusing to have accounts on Twitter, or tumblr at all. You can't count on everyone to tag their shit. I realize that they don't have to, and I don't believe people should be forced into doing things that they don't want to do; however, I can still have the opinion that such people can go fuck themselves for putting an effort toward making entirely too much of fandom a virtue signaling circlejerk from hell. Doesn't anyone make blingee gifs and google cat memes anymore? How about people who write gay sex just to write gay sex? I want to roll with people who chill and who aren't into all this discourse and politically correct shit either. I don't think this is wrong of me. I know who my people are, and they're not the B's (refer to secret) of fandom.