Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-09-02 04:59 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-09-02 04:59 pm
[ SECRET POST #606 ]
⌈ Secret Post #606 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 402 secrets from Secret Submission Post #087.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-09-03 01:17 pm (UTC)(link)PETER stares at NATHAN'S lips wistfully.(You know what I mean.) And if you'd like to examine what kind of relationship exactly exists between the actors, that's a whole other story, but you'll certainly be able to find likeminded parts of fandom who'll discuss it with you.
Side observation: online fandom is so focused on romance and sexual behaviors, we'll sacrifice a considerable portion of the original material's meaning and intent in order to create more plausibility for our preferred scenarios.
In the particular case of onscreen siblings, you've pretty much got three options, all three of which go against mainstream common practices: incest, real-person fic (a lot of which includes adultery and/or established, assumed bisexuality), or alternate universes. I think one reason why incest is so popular in fandom avenues is because a lot of the audience for it starts out shipping it in jest. As the output of fan-generated media centered on it increases, so do people's involvement and interest. Then there's the probable effects of groupthink, but that's another tl;dr I won't bore you with today. ;)
The other main contributor, I think, is a "path of least resistance" type of reasoning, where real person fic is still very much a taboo, and alternate universes require too much mental restructuring of canon (iow, you don't want to think too hard). Fandom gets away with incest because none of it is real, anyway.
But out of curiousity; since you have personally never seen two siblings behave towards each other in the way that Nathan and Peter do, if you ever do eventually see it, would you automatically assume they're engaged in incestuous relations? Further, if they tell you that they are not, would you be able to accept that, or would you doubt their word?
I'm honestly asking, 'cause this entire perception and interpretation issue is rather fascinating to me.
no subject
Also, I do differentiate between Milo/Adrian and Peter/Nathan, and I don’t think there’s anything going on between either Milo/Adrian or Peter/Nathan. However, I DO think the subtext is there for anyone who wishes to see it, and TPTB (the actors, the writers, whoever) do a poor job of hiding it or discouraging it from fangirls who they –know- will analyze everything to hell. (Ask yourself, do they even really want to discourage it, seeing as it could bring them a whole new audience who are interested in seeing what all the fuss is about? Kring didn’t seem to be too upset about the thought that fangirls were seeing something ‘else’ between Nathan and Peter; the guy probably scoffed and went back to writing his much beloved brotherly scenes.)
Do some viewers interpret certain scenes and actions differently (even based on what they want to see?)? Of course. That’s the way things work. (Remember this is fandom honey, people don’t even have to be in the same series to be paired together.)
On the Milo/Adrian front, I’m simply saying that I feel they do no favors (or many favors, depending on who you ask) to discourage Peter/Nathan. Make no mistake, they have great chemistry, I just don’t think it’s the type of chemistry two people playing brothers should have. And don’t get me wrong, I think they’re both great actors, but I’ve never been able to convincingly see them as siblings. So, no, I can see the difference between Milo/Adrian and Peter/Nathan (and even see the difference between Peter and Nathan in other mediums than the TV show – the graphic novel, for instance – but this is about the TV show and their characters there), what I’m saying is I don’t think Peter and Nathan, as Milo and Adrian play them (which I guess is what you’re pointing out), seem quite normal on that front. In the end Milo and Adrian ARE Peter and Nathan though. Whatever Kring saw fit to be in the TV show is canon, so even if you argue Peter and Nathan aren’t looking at each others lips wistfully, they kind of are, because Milo and Adrian, their actors, saw fit to play the scene that way. (And hey, if Kring didn’t make them do another take, apparently he saw nothing wrong with it.) No, I don’t think ‘PETER stares at NATHAN’S lips wistfully’ was in the script, and I definitely don’t think that was Kring’s intention, but the brothers staring at each others lips still ended up in the finished product, so it’s still there for people to take notice of.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-09-03 11:01 pm (UTC)(link)And I'm inclined to agree about TPTB playing to it, definitely. They enjoy whatever attention they can get, and I think this one type in particular is one that amuses them very much, with which they liked to have fun and through which they may establish a sort of connivence with its audience, all in good fun.
no subject
And I would never be OMG CANON INCEST unless the incest was actually implied or explicitly shown. Shipping in fandom is fun for me, and sure there are moments where I take my ships pretty seriously, but I'm not -crazy- about it. I know what's real and what's not and don't mind admitting it.
no subject
I can’t personally speak for fandom as to why incest is so popular, nor would I want to; although for some people I think it has more to do with the particular characters in question than the fact that those characters are actually siblings: in other words, if they weren’t siblings they would ship it, so they ship it regardless. Once again, I’m sure that’s not the case for everyone, but that’s how I feel about it to a certain extent, and I’ve crossed paths with a few people who seem to feel that way themselves. Do I think incest is serious? Certainly. Do I think incest in a highly unrealistic and fictional environment is serious? Not really. In the back of my mind I know it’s not real, and that changes things for me. (For instance, one of my favorite bands happens to have a large incestuous RPS following, and yet I don’t participate in it; why? Because it’s real. Like I said, that changes things for me. I’m not going to dump on people who do read it, but for me that does change things. Just goes to show you how different people will see different things and different people will respond or be put off by different things.)
I honestly doubt if I were to see two siblings react as Nathan and Peter do to each other that my first thought would be ‘incestuous relationship’! It gets mentioned often, but I still feel I need to point out that fandom and its fictional relationships are an entirely different beast. However, would I think it a bit strange to see two siblings interact like The Petrelli brothers do? Yes. Might it even jokingly pass my mind that they were in an incestuous relationship? Yes. Would it ever seriously cross my mind that they could truly be in a relationship of that nature? Most likely not, unless they were interacting in a way I thought to be –extremely- outrageous for siblings, which in real life would probably never happen. So, yes, fandom is different. And unless I saw two siblings making out I would probably just think their relationship to be a bit odd and wouldn’t question it, certainly if they were to say they weren’t in a relationship of that nature (even though, I wouldn't be asking them in the first place, because awwwkkkkward, and so not my business.)
Man, I hope you –really- got something out of this. (Half of it probably doesn’t even make sense, but hey, you asked, I answered, so be happy. XD)
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-09-03 11:11 pm (UTC)(link)I'm right there with you on that one. It's the few that don't see this that sort of make me headdesk a lot.
Do I think incest in a highly unrealistic and fictional environment is serious? Not really. In the back of my mind I know it’s not real, and that changes things for me.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You obviously see the difference between fiction and real world relationships.
I (mis)took OP's concerns to be about the people that don't, and that find inappropriateness in families displaying affection toward each other so unabashedly. Those people exist, in and out of online fandom, and I just think it's rather sad. It's just a fact that online fandom banalizes that mode of thinking, nolens volens.
This has been enlightening, yes. Thanks for taking the time. :)
no subject
Haha, it's amazing that this had to be pointed out, but I suppose fandom IS pretty bizarre these days. Fiction is one thing, and real life is a whole 'nother rodeo. If the OP hugs or touches her brother often you won't see me freaking out about it. I don't do it and haven't seen it, so I might find it a bit odd, but it's not out of the realm of proper contact or anything. If she were making out with her brother then yea, that would be...rather uncomfortable and a TOTALLY different matter, but, still not my business. >.>
You're most welcome.
(I swear it doesn't take me THAT long to come up with a comment, my internet just hates me.)