Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-09-03 05:05 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-09-03 05:05 pm
[ SECRET POST #606 ]
⌈ Secret Post #607 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Help our little city grow!
Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 307 secrets from Secret Submission Post #087.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 - repeat ], [ 1 - lol ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
154
I don't mean this is a bitchy sense, I'm honestly asking. How could you possibly enjoy the games if you didn't like Edgeworth?
I still don't get how people can like something if they don't like the main character.
Re: 154
(Anonymous) 2008-09-03 11:56 pm (UTC)(link)Re: 154
And Maya. But I don't want to get into srs literary bizness more than I already have.
Re: 154
Sometime, I really need to write up the giant rant pointing out that the ONLY games in which an argument can be made for Phoenix as the main character are 2 and AJ. (I wouldn't say Edgeworth drives JfA -- his absence, maybe, but it's much more about how that impacts Phoenix and Franziska.)
Re: 154
IMHO, the games (discounting AJ, which is about Phoenix and Kristoph) have three main storylines- Edgeworth, Kurain, and the Steel Samurai. But i'm getting tl;dr and I already wrote like a billion posts on it.
BUT YES. PREACH THE TRUFAX.
Re: 154
Ack, sorry for jumping in, but so much word to this, srsly. If the Fey family plot is the glue that holds the series together, then the development of Edgeworth's character and his relationship to Phoenix (however you want to interpret it) is its secondary overarching subplot, imo. It's one of the reasons why I can't always buy fanon that has Edgeworth as just disappearing out of canon after T&T - because it seems like so much of PW:1-3 is about getting him to a point where he can be involved in that world, with those people
Re: 154
Shit, I should just write an essay.
Re: 154
Not OP's tl;dr
(Anonymous) 2008-09-04 05:28 am (UTC)(link)I don't find Edgeworth a particularly interesting character, yet I enjoyed the first three Ace Attorney games. It is important to make the distintion between not interesting and dislike.
I am probably not the same in my opinion of Edgeworth as the OP to 154 is, but my (simplified) feelings are thus: I like Phoenix. I am only interested in Edgeworth through the filter of Phoenix. Take Phoenix away, and I wouldn't care at all about Edgeworth and his motivations. This is why I am never going to buy the Perfect Prosecutor game; Edgeworth's piece of 3-5 was dull for me.
Phoenix's dead set determination to save a friend he hadn't seen since childhood is his motivating factor through the first game, yes. That friend, his problems, and how Phoenix saves him from them are important plot points, but I don't need to sympathize with the friend in order to sympathize with Phoenix. Saving the friend is Phoenix's journey, and it is the journey that happens to interest me, not so much the friend himself.
The second game, Edgeworth is mostly a no show. This is the game were I actually come close to outright disliking him, so I guess it's lucky for me I only had to deal with him for one case and Phoenix spends most of the game pissed off at him, too.
The third game... someone from this thread is going to have to explain to me how Edgeworth is critical to that game. I am trying to figure out how it would change the game if Edgeworth was removed entirely from it by:
1. Making Phoenix already a law student in 3-1
2. Changing the prosecutor in 3-4 to ...well, anyone else, really...
3. Not letting Phoenix hospitalize himself in 3-5 for that one day of investigation/court.
From what I remember, the only thing Edgeworth adds is the fact that he knew Dahlia was executed... but that seems like the kind of thing they keep records on, not something you'd only learn by word of mouth. I guess that stunt also kept Phoenix getting a chance to talk with Iris :/ I don't really know, it's been awhile.
In any case, I liked the third game well enough, so not being interested in Edgeworth couldn't have been too detrimental to my enjoyment of it, even with that one section where
you're stuck alone in a room with himyou play him.... hopefully you got an idea of what I mean in that rambling ;P But, yes. Ace Attorney = Love. Edgeworth = Apathy.
Re: Not OP's tl;dr
I guess my problem is that Phoenix is such a thin filter. Until AJ, he's not a round character in the way that Edgeworth is, because there are simply not the same opportunities to see him. It's Phoenix that I sometimes find uninteresting, so I can't really grok why somebody would play just for him. Phoenix is awesome, he's my proxy, he's my buddy, but it's Edgeworth I find compelling enough to keep playing for.
Part of the problem is that the story of Phoenix's journey is simply not enough motivation for me. If you take Edgeworth's personality and his own motivations, backstory, etc out of it, you're just going to rescue Princess Peach, and that type of storyline frankly bores the shit out of me. Bitch can rescue her damn self.
same not OP anon
(Anonymous) 2008-09-04 08:28 am (UTC)(link)To each their own. Can I help it if I like vanilla?
Not that I really see Phoenix as 'vanilla' myself, obviously. His moral naivety paired to his practicality, the more confident front he plays over his insecurities and a nearly insane desire to please others... Actually, I love learning things about him through interaction with the environment. He is the player proxy, but unlike, say, Link [whom I also like in his various incarnations XD], he does have a distinct voice of his own. It may be true that we never really have much of an opportunity to see him outside the work environment-- but, he's grown on me to the point where I would be interested in seeing the other aspects of his life.
Edgeworth... I dunno, I simply failed to make a connection with him. I think that may be part of my problem-- he feels a little unconnected to me, whether he's just keeping to himself (the way I see him in one) or absorbed in himself (the way I see him in two). Phoenix is real to me. Edgeworth is just some ideal stuck in Phoenix's head that doesn't match the reality.
And AJ. Oh dear, the love/hate relationship I have with that game. But I guess I won't tl;dr about it here :)
But essentially, it seems we shall always differ on this matter of taste. I just wanted to point out to you that people with opinions such as mine do exist, and we like Ace Attorney just fine XD
Re: same not OP anon
It is true that there is a lot to learn about Phoenix through playing, but it's still a little light for my tastes. It may be, too, that I've played the games too damn much, so I've internalized all that stuff about Phoenix. It's not that I'm not interested in him, either- there's just more interesting stuff to look at.
Oh god, let's just not even start on AJ. We'd be here until the Rapture.
...Would anon be interested in writing a counterpoint essay about this type of stuff, assuming I ever get around to actually writing an essay about it like I'm threatening?
Re: same not OP anon
(Anonymous) 2008-09-05 01:35 am (UTC)(link)I would probably give it a shot, since I'm the type of person who likes to type these kinds of things out (...as if you couldn't tell). It helps me work things out for my own benefit, at the very least.
Only problem is with the anon-ness I am so fond of hiding behind. I could probably give you a poke on AIM with the screenname I use for hanging out in the empty kink meme chatroom, if you'd like a way to get in direct touch with me.
Re: same not OP anon
My AIM is a little sketch right now, but we can try it out. You can also just email me at mcangmar [at] gmail [dot] com.