[ SECRET POST #4402 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4402 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 17 secrets from Secret Submission Post #630.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. https://i.imgur.com/P5du8SM.png

[(Anonymous)]

I am................... skeptical

OP

[(Anonymous)]

But there’s a point to having human male characters objectify and dehumanize robots that look like women! It’s part of a larger message about technology and society, and

*dragged off with a vaudeville hook*

Seriously, if you think it’s sexist, it’s sexist for you. At the very least, it could have been much better written to make it come across as less gender essentialist and sex-obsessed.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

So, at the very least, I think you have to take it with a grain of salt if a show doing that while also relying on sex and fanservice for a huge portion of its appeal to viewers

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

That really sounds like a shitty excuse to show objectifying and dehumanizing women...

[(Anonymous)]

OP, you're not the only person here who likes Madoka. But since I avoid fandom entirely except for FS, I have no idea why people get upset with it. (I'm not sure I want to know.) But you're not alone.

[(Anonymous)]

Wait... why is Madoka sexist? I thought people accepted it generally as an amazing anime. If it's because it utilizes schoolgirls and such, that's sort of... the point? Subverting the genre and all. I don't even recall it sexualizing the girls.

Chobits, I haven't seen since like early high school and I liked it back then (and I'm female). But iirc they were literally sex robots. The show may have had a larger, more interesting plot, but it wasn't void of fanservice. Which isn't necessarily a horrible thing, but whatev. Same thing with Elfen Lied.

[(Anonymous)]

It's little girls suffering porn written by someone who wrote actual porn involving a monster that looked like a little girl before. It's kind of gross.

[(Anonymous)]

..Madoka was not porn. Not on any scale. I don't even recall it having fanservice.

I don't agree that because an author has written porn, everything else they write must be viewed through a pornographic lens. Otherwise, the majority of my own writing is fucked.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I’ve seen a lot of ink spilled to argue that Madoka is tragedy porn with no higher purpose than to enjoy little girls suffering. Every time someone makes a magical girl show that’s violent or depressing, people show up to argue that it sucks just like Madoka sucks. There’s also a gendered argument, saying that men make magical girl shows that are depressing and women make magical girl shows that are uplifting, so therefore it’s exploitative for men to make magical girl shows.

[(Anonymous)]

You really don't remember it sexualizing the girls? Mami had enormous breasts and even pulled guns out of them. The camera framed their crotches deliberately when they sat down more than once. There's only one audience that was intended for.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven’t seen the Chobits anime and I’ve heard it had more tonal dissonance than the manga that makes its serious themes harder to absorb (though idk) but yeah the manga at least isn’t sexist imo. I know “it’s written by women” doesn’t necessarily mean anything but imo Clamp explores the themes of objectification more than most.

[(Anonymous)]

I can totally believe that this is an anime versus manga thing, because I'm only familiar with the anime and was very confused because OP just seemed, like, blatantly factually incorrect

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't seen Chobits, but I love Madoka. I'm also a huge fan of traditional magical girl anime and sick of people saying Madoka stole the genre from girls. Nobody is stopping women from writing magical girl stories for little girls just because darker adult-oriented MG shows also exist now.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly? Avoiding these conversations altogether is for the best. 4th wave feminism is always losing its shit over perfectly harmless thing. It'd gotten even worse in fandom where you get the most bizarre discourse that is often harmful to the actual people it's claiming to protect.

For example, this m/f pair that argued once is ABUSIVE and if you ship it you are an ABUSE APOLOGIST. And totally ignoring all the abuse survivors that go "a het couple that argues occasionally is not abusive, what the fuck" or insulting them and calling them abusers or abuse apologists themselves.

And I'm not saying that in a "fuck feminism" kind of way. More in a "4th wave is fucked, none of this is anti-feminist, these people need to learn a little about those buzzwords they keep spouting. It's really clear this is about bullying and popularity contests and it has nothing to do with social justice, or the empowerment and rights of women."

[(Anonymous)]

This is a stretch.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's very important to at least try to be careful about drawing the line between things that are intellectual trends, and things that are people being stupid on the Internet

[(Anonymous)]

Can't say for Chobits because it was so goddamn boring I never got past the first chapter of the manga, but I watched the shit out of Madoka and I loved it, so I'm with you OP. The characters maintaining a sense of optimism in the face of crushingly bleak reality resonated with me so idgaf what people think of it.

[dahli]

I'm not a fan of Chobits, but in its defense the objectification was kinda THE POINT. I don't it was not exactly presented as good and how "Make Youre Own Perfect Waifu" alienates people from actually getting to know people who are not perfect and accepting them as imperfect beings and shutting yourself in a bubble... Or so are my thoughts on it.

God, I'm getting all Evangelion philosophy here. The point is that I'm not a fan but I can see where you're coming from.

As for Madoka, I have a love-hate relationship with it as in I enjoyed it but I can see the flaws in it. The fans are 'nother can of worms entirely.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not a fan of Chobits, but in its defense the objectification was kinda THE POINT. I don't it was not exactly presented as good and how "Make Youre Own Perfect Waifu" alienates people from actually getting to know people who are not perfect and accepting them as imperfect beings and shutting yourself in a bubble... Or so are my thoughts on it.

I think the problem with this sort of idea is that it's almost impossible to actually accomplish it successfully, and not end up accidentally doing the kind of objectifying that you're trying to criticize. And even if you do somehow manage to accomplish it, the fanbase probably won't notice and will just objectify it anyway.

It's kind of the same thing as comics fans embracing Rorschach from Watchmen as a badass hero and not noticing that he's a violent antisocial sociopath and murderer.

[(Anonymous)]

Haven’t thought about Chobits in ages, but I remember thinking it was kinda weird. I liked it though.

[rosehiptea]

I actually bought the manga recently because I saw the series being sold at a very reasonable price on eBay and I figured "Why not." I haven't started reading it yet though. At the time I remember someone telling me it sounded a lot "worse" than it was - I guess I'll be finding out.

[(Anonymous)]

I just want to state that I have not watched Chobits in *years* but her exact tone of voice and cadence as she says "underpants" again and again *immediately* popped into my head like it was just waiting for the right cue to return.

[(Anonymous)]

LMAO, you anime fans think nothing is sexist except the tomboy who dislikes skirts

[(Anonymous)]

Have you seen the My Hero Academia fandom? Anime fans think everything is sexist. They practically think female characters existing is sexist.