fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4434 ]

[ SECRET POST #4434 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4434 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[The Good Place]

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03.

[Taskmaster]

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04.

[The Umbrella Academy, "We Only See Each Other at Weddings and Funerals"]

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05.

[Criminal Minds S04E15, "Zoe's Reprise"]

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06.

[FBI (2018)]

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07.

[Cameron Britton playing Ed Kemper in Mindhunter]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #635.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

How do other people define Chaotic Neutral? Because the people I've been playing with pretty much define it as "Exactly as prone to evil deeds as Chaotic Evil, but without the awareness of it being evil". We got into an argument about it yesterday, with me pointing out that 'Evil but really stupid' doesn't actually sound like a moral alignment, and that it seems unlikely to me that cultists who want to sacrifice slaves to their subterranean spider goddess honestly believe they are doing the wrong thing, so by that reasoning, they're not evil - but the rules book would disagree!

Really, I just want my "neutral" co-players to stop doing evil shit and going "BuT iT's WhAt My ChArAcTeR wOuLd Do!!!1!"

I think I'm with you? It's been a long time since I played, but when I think of Chaotic Neutral it's more like Bugs Bunny or the Animaniacs. Trickster characters, or hedonists who aren't doing evil things, just whatever the heck they want.

Chaotic Neutral is not evil at all to me. They just do whatever suits them best in the moment but they aren't actively looking to screw people over or harm anyone. Someone could get hurt as a result of their choices but it's not usually their intention. They're also totally fine with breaking laws and/or lying or stealing. Basically, they're really self-centered but they're not evil.

Chaotic Neutral rogue (+party) walks into a room, where we find an unconscious amnesiac.
CN Rogue: I want to make her my pet! :D

*Chaotic Neutral sorcerer is interrogating random servant*
CN sorcerer: I roll to intimidate!
*rolls very low, gets laughed at*
CN sorcerer: I roll to stab him!

Chaotic Neutral paladin: *breaks down the front door of a random house because he wants to sleep there; tries to put his pet rats in the font of a temple and threatens with violence when someone tries to stop him.*

I'm just really tired of my party's bullshit, tbh, but I'm not overburdened with friends, so I'm also not keen to tell them my unedited thoughts.

Sounds like they think Chaotic Neutral means straight-up psychotic.

So, part of the problem here is that the alignment system in D&D doesn't really make sense, and never really has, especially as some kind of moral guidance for what PC-level characters are likely to do. Law and chaos, good and evil, make sense as broad cosmic principles for characters and factions to choose to align to - and that's how they're used in the fiction that D&D is largely drawing on. But as personal motivations and psychological types, they make almost no sense at all.

So with that said, my personal interpretation - if you're trying to make them work on an individual level - is that a chaotic neutral character has no particular inclination towards being especially selfish or selfless, but has a strong inclination towards their own personal freedom and desires, and against any restrictions or any code or any ideology that would place limitations on that desire. They may do evil and selfish things incidentally, in pursuit of those desires. But the desires themselves aren't necessarily selfish, harmful, or evil; they're just unrestrained.

Also, most editions of Dungeons & Dragons are not necessarily great game systems from a design point of view, and there's a good chance that some other game system would result in a better game. In particular, 13th Age, Dungeon World, Shadow of the Demon Lord, and Torchbearer are some pretty good D&D-alikes that are generally pretty easy to pick up. And that don't force you to do things like interact with alignment systems.

-didn't read any other comment/knows nothing about D&D/character/world building in general-

The point I'm seeing is that by using a graph to pinpoint a character, they've kinda done all that they could in order to establish that point. As in you take in all their traits/deeds before putting them into any sort of category??...;;
So in a game like D&D, naming your specific character to a stereotype/ideal/graph is just an excuse to input themselves and pretend it's just their character trying to stir shit up, or attempting to get as many rewards/whatever as possible...
I realise people do this every time- but aside from troll standards, using 'chaotic neutral' as a base just might be an excuse to act like an ass...? It's the most vague and bullshitable of them all, from what I imagine...
But like, is it the promise of a 'chaotic neutral' character what you're finding so offensive?

I really have no idea what I'm talking about, obviously. But my opinion of chaotic neutral is that they have no opinion either way. They have their own set of judgments, good, or evil... They'll do their best against the law if they believe it's right, or use their knowlege, even if in the most lawless of ways to support it.../etc...
But everybody has a different opinion, and I say just kick them out if they're just ruining everyone elses fun??

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #4434 ]

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