fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #614 ]

[ SECRET POST #614 ]

⌈ Secret Post #614 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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RANK 35! → [ pop env ~~ind~~ ~~sec~~ com ]

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 197 secrets from Secret Submission Post #088.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Nice attitude, asshole. You needed to go anon for THAT? But no. More like "The Petrelli/Bennet show of evil machinations and disturbing family dynamics." And if that show bothers you, you can always stick to the...what? 10 minutes in each episode that doesn't involve that.

You think I should have registered a livejournal account for THAT?

But it's nice that you agree that the Petrelli family is taking up more and more space on the show, while promising characters like Monica are written out. It's supposed to be an ensemble show about a global phenomenon, starring characters from all over the world. Focusing on one white American family (or two, no big difference) kind of goes against what, for many people, is the series' appeal.

Ah! So you CAN have an interesting discussion with me about this. Excellent! And yes, I completely agree that the show should have been about that. A global phenomenon. I feel, however, that when the writers attempted to do that, they failed miserably. They don't have the skill or the awareness to tackle that kind of complex storytelling. What they DO do well is the interpersonal stuff. The family dynamics. They've had plenty of interesting characters on the show that they did absolutely nothing with. Including Monica. However, I would prefer that they concentrate on their strengths and create an interesting product that I can enjoy without wasting time each week on characters and storylines that merely highlight their many weaknesses. For me, that means predominantly Petrellis and Bennets.

So you're going to apologize for calling me asshole?

I absolutely disagree that the Petrellis and the Bennets are the best-written characters. Peter has been handled horribly in the second season. He is too powerful, and the writers cannot seem to think of a way to limit his powers - at least they couldn't in season 2. Giving him amnesia should have been the solution, because during his training with Claude in season 1, Peter said he could use the abilities of people when he recalled "how they made him feel". He should have lost their abilities when he lost his memories of the people he met, but instead, the show does the opposite: Peter can still use his powers, and the entire idea that he needs to have an emotional connection (good or bad) with someone to have access to their ability was scrapped as well, because now Peter can also use DL's phasing ability, just because he was in his proximity once day, without really knowing anything about him.

Why did Peter not phase through the door in the vault? Why didn't he read Adam's mind even when everyone he met kept insisting Adam was evil? Because the writers either don't know how, or don't even try to write Peter properly, taking his abilities into account. As a result, he comes across as dumb as bread, but because I know he isn't supposed to come across like that, I cannot take his storyline seriously anymore. Hopefully S3 will be better, but season 2 was a disaster as far as Peter was concerned, and proved clearly that the writers have problems integrating him into a story in a meaningful way.

The problem with Nathan is mostly that he's had a perfectly moving and touching death scene at the end of Season 1, but they brought him back so he could do - nothing. I did not get the impression that he properly dealt with his sins... He was brought back because of his popularity. Seriously, the main reasons I see for the focus on the Petrellis is: the Petrelli fangirls are really loud and have entitlement issues (often complaining that the other characters just take away the precious screentime that rightfully belongs to Peter and Nathan), and that Peter is Tim Kring's Gary Stu self-insert, and therefore gets away with a lot and MUST be the best, most powerful, most special guy whose mistakes are easily forgiven...

Yeah, seriously, I am not claiming that my perspective is objective, but I don't think Peter and Nathan are objectively the best-written characters. (you do forgive me for not addressing all Petrellis and Bennets? I'd like to get some sleep tonight...)
The focus would not bother me half as much if they were written better. I actually really liked them in Season 1, and I did not mind the focus on them at all... it felt natural, but now, it just feels forced.

I effing love you. Perfectly said.

Well said.

So you're going to apologize for calling me asshole?

No. You acted like an asshole. But you improved, so thanks for that.

Peter has been handled horribly in the second season. He is too powerful, and the writers cannot seem to think of a way to limit his powers - at least they couldn't in season 2.

Agreed completely. Peter's entire storyline in S2 was incredibly weak and I think they definitely wrote themselves into a corner with respect to his powers and his character. He needs limits or he becomes even more uninteresting. You are also correct that the amnesia storyline was ridiculous because they didn't even follow their own internal logic with respect to how his powers worked. I think a large part of the problem was in removing Peter from the rest of the Petrellis. His power, and his entire character, are really only workable within the framework of the family dynamics. The manipulations of Angela and the emotional entanglement of Nathan's expectations for him. Without that, he's a Gary Stu or a cypher. They tried to replace that foil with Adam but it didn't work, it merely made Peter look more gullible than he already did. With Nathan, he becomes interesting because you can see the man he was forced to become both because of his brother's expectations and despite them.

The problem with Nathan is mostly that he's had a perfectly moving and touching death scene at the end of Season 1, but they brought him back so he could do - nothing. I did not get the impression that he properly dealt with his sins... He was brought back because of his popularity.

I can't argue that. But I am one of the people who would have stopped watching had they killed off Nathan because none of the other characters are remotely as interesting to me. Adrian Pasdar is one of the best actors on the show and it would have done an immense disservice to both Angela and Peter's characters to have Nathan gone. It's the push and pull of that family dynamic that interests me. Without Nathan, season two would have been even MORE dismal than it already was. They proved that they could not handle characters with less competent actors, and that they couldn't think of ways to integrate new characters into the existing universe (ie. Monica, Maya, Alejandro, West, etc). So, I am more than willing to sacrifice some of the potential of the idea (what Heroes could have been), to get more quality from what they can actually deliver.

Of course this is all, ymmv. But that wasn't the point of the secret. Apparently you read a lot more into my response than was actually there. As I am not in the fandom, I don't know what the wars are. I am, however, in plenty of other fandoms and should have known better than to think ANY response wouldn't get obnoxious responses. Oh well. At least it resulted in one interesting conversation.

I agree with everything Elyssa DC said, but also?

WHAT SINS?

Nathan:

* didn't let his brother's erratic behaviour, which he had little-to-no reason to believe had a rational basis at the time, ruin the campaign he'd worked all his life for;

* was tempted by, but never fully gave into, the promise of power Linderman and his mother made him;

* was almost convinced, possibly by mind control, that he couldn't win against them, but did so;

* slept with a woman in Vegas and didn't tell his wife about it--yeah, but his wife's a paraplegic who has no feeling below the waist, you think she would rather be giving him blowjobs and having him feel guilty about it than telling her a little white lie here and there? OK, maybe that's how you'd feel but I sure wouldn't;

* DID NOT KNOW that they stole the election.

What has Nathan done that's so goddamn terrible? People talk about Nathan the way that they talk about Jim Profit, but they're about as far from being the same character as humanly possible.

* slept with a woman in Vegas and didn't tell his wife about it--yeah, but his wife's a paraplegic who has no feeling below the waist, you think she would rather be giving him blowjobs and having him feel guilty about it than telling her a little white lie here and there? OK, maybe that's how you'd feel but I sure wouldn't;

... Wow. Just wow. I... Wow.

slept with a woman in Vegas and didn't tell his wife about it--yeah, but his wife's a paraplegic who has no feeling below the waist, you think she would rather be giving him blowjobs and having him feel guilty about it than telling her a little white lie here and there? OK, maybe that's how you'd feel but I sure wouldn't

You =/= Heidi or any other woman.

But what if the rest of us think the Petrellis and Bennets are growing more and more, well, boring?

You certainly have the right to think they're interesting, as I certainly have the right to think you have bad taste! How anyone can watch season three and still think Peter and Claire are the most interesting central characters is beyond me.

And Nathan should die not because he's a douche (Nathan actually is interesting, partly because he IS a douche), but rather because this show needs to prove again that it won't stick to the safe monotone where no fan will ever be excited over a "is he dead or isn't he?" cliffhanger again.

This is just utterly hilarious.

The show was originally supposed to have a new cast every year. They changed their minds about that after the first season because we (and that would be the fans who were vocal) loved Nathan and his family. Of course they won't get rid of the Petrellis. When they decided that they WERE going to have a continuing story arc from year to year, the Petrelli and Bennet families were the logical place to hang it, because the fans love them so much and because they already have conspiracy and mystery in their plotline.

I'm sorry to see Monica go. But I do love Nathan much more (because he's Adrian Pasdar, whom I've adored since Profit was actually aired, playing the kind of role Adrian plays best). You know who I think they should have got rid of? Maya, hell yes, not Monica. But they have never promoted Monica's storyline, they didn't send her actress on the world tour, they didn't do any of that with her. Kring's never been into her, and I agree with you that that's a shame. Maya, on the other hand, they are going to shove down our throats till the show finally collapses on top of the shark that it jumped last season. (I'm still watching--for Nathan and Sylar and Hiro and Claire and HRG, though, not because I think it's omg the great show that it was in S1.) Even though she's a giant collection of offensive stereotypes of Latin people who's played by an actress I'd really like to see give an interview where she was the least bit articulate instead of promoting how sexy she thinks she is.

Why? Kring loves her. He's promoted her since day one. Unlike Monica. Because Monica isn't SMEXY. I'm not saying she's not hot. The actress is in fact way hotter and prettier than Dania "look at my tits" Ramirez. But the character is modest and driven to self-improvement and actually the kind of person you'd want your daughter to be, instead of a stripper, a cheerleader, or a bimbo who threw over her own brother for the creepy white guy--and I say this with all the love in the world, for I do love Sylar--who picked her up on the road because he has the name of an angel. But there is a huge problem on this show with female characters who aren't evil, sexually charged, or both. And that is that they don't last.

YES. THAT IS MY SHOW TOO and it rules over the other ones. If that show and the Mylar show go off the air...why bother?

I think it's hilarious how Mylar fans seem to believe the show revolves around those two characters and their interactions with each other, when in reality, they've shared screentime in all of...what, five episodes? Six if you include "Five Years Gone."

But then again, I wouldn't expect a Mylar fan to be in touch with reality.

Have you never read the "Your Friends Are Not Watching The Same Show You Are?" essay? If so, you need to, and you need to stop being so much of a jerk about this. Nobody in their right mind thinks Mylar is Tim Kring's intention or actual canon (despite the fact that Zachary and Sendhil both enjoy it), and people who don't like Mylar need to stop fucking saying that we all believe that, because I don't personally know ANYONE who does.

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[ SECRET POST #614 ]

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