fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #615 ]

[ SECRET POST #615 ]

⌈ Secret Post #615 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[formerly too big]

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Notes:

Early cause I have class!

STILL RANK 35 → [ pop ind sec env com ]

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 94 secrets from Secret Submission Post #088.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - troll ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Fantasy can glorify reality.

Not saying that it does in this case, just that you aren't actually responding to the secret.

I don't understand why people think it's unreasonable to respond to a rape fantasy with repulsion. Everyone has a right to enjoy and write what they please, but that doesn't mean they have a right to have everyone else react positively.

I'm not saying people can't react with repulsion - of course they can, they have the right, etc. I just don't get this "if it's bad IRL then you should treat it accordingly in fiction" attitude.

So what if someone likes to read/write non-con. That doesn't necessarily mean she isn't sensitive to the issue IRL.

"FANTASY != REALITY GET OVER IT" is not sensitive to the issue, I'm afraid.

So what would you suggest as a sensitive response to "OMG I RED UR FIC DESPITE ALL THE WARNINGS ON IT AND I THINK UR DISGUSTING AND U SHULD SEE HOW U LIKE IT IN RL!!!!!"?

Well, here's how I would translate "FICTION != REALITY QQ MOAR":

"You're going way too far to suggest that anyone who reads/writes/enjoys rapefic should experience rape themselves, but I understand where you're coming from and that you're speaking out of anger. I'm sorry about what happened to you, but people who read/write/enjoy rapefic generally don't mean to condone or glorify rape itself. I think it has more to do with control that with violence. It's totally understandable that you find it gross/repulsive, but I think it's important that you seperate out your feelings at the fic and your feelings towards the people who write it, because the vast majority of them are probably a lot more sympathetic than you'd think at first glance. Anyway, the fic probably isn't going away so it's something that you'll have to work through."

That is a brilliant way of putting it.

she's channelling the op, apparently.

and you know, all that she said? it's pretty much been said.

over

and

over

and

over

again. we are getting a BIT FUCKING TIRED of having to repeat ourselves to every little wounded butterfly who is traumatized on the internet.

yeah, we do tend to lose our sympathy after going through this same goddamned argument AGAIN.

want sympathy? talk to mommy. or a therapist.

How is she channelling the OP? I think she agrees with our viewpoint (yes, I'm one of the "fiction != reality people as well), but I don't think she agrees with how people are attacking the OP for expressing her opinion in a secrets community. If you'd read my other comments in this same thread, you'd know that I certainly know exactly how you feel.

Also, worth pointing out: if you want people to respect your point of view, it might help if you respect theirs first.

Edited 2008-09-11 22:36 (UTC)

So has everything you've said. What's the difference? Why do you feel so bloody entitled to never facing criticism, hurt or anger? You are playing with fire, it's going to happen, you're going to have to deal with it. It's the same as how the OP has to deal with the existence of rapefic. Stop acting like such a brat.

Thank you. You put things in a much better perspective.

But then, I don't like non-con either.

The bottom line for me (aside from leaving people alone to enjoy what they enjoy) is to understand that just because someone enjoys something as a fantasy they don't necessarily condone to that IRL, or that they're too shallow to understand what it is that they like. You can't expect kinks and fantasies to be logical or sensitive to RL issues.

But you can expect the people who write and enjoy those kinks to be sensitive to RL issues.

So they shouldn't write about them because other people might find them offensive? They shouldn't talk about them because other people may find the topic repulsive?

As long as there's a proper warning on a story, I don't see the problem. And if it comes up in discussion then either give your 2 cents and be ready to agree to disagree with others, or stay silent and hit the back button. It worked for me all these years.

No, they can talk and write about them all them want. "Sensitivity," in my opinion, would be understanding where these feelings of repulsion come from and finding a response that isn't "FICTION != REALITY YOU DUMBASS" when confronted with them.

The problem is that the OP is beating a horse so dead it's a rotting heap of bones. The first few times I saw this argument I reacted in a sensitive way because I understood (and still understand) where that repulsion came from. But after a time one just stops being sensitive about it and starts getting annoyed. (I usually don't react anymore, though... I commented now because the OP wishing rape on others ticked me off.)

Again, the fact that it's been said doesn't really change that it's kind of understandable. I can see why you'd lose patience but I still think that the OP deserves some measure of patience.

Maybe, but I can't give her that. I believe in common courtesy and avoiding hurting people, but I also believe that one should accept that people are very different, that not everyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot, and that you can't expect fandom to look out for you and your feelings.

Re: 104

(Anonymous) - 2008-09-11 22:28 (UTC) - Expand

I say this as a survivor of sexual assault - if you don't like rape fanworks, then don't read/write/draw/look at it. No one is making you. Every fanwork I've encountered that involved rape had warnings attached to it, so you know what you're getting into before you read it.

No one is entitled to others' approval, this is true (though note that this can also be applied to the people disapproving - no one has to like that they disapprove). It's worth pointing out, however, that a lot of people - myself included, read/write rape fanfiction as a means of therapy, and have rape fantasies because it's a different way of dealing with what happened to them - by acting out a rape fantasy (or simply by writing it), it allows the survivor to relive the incident in a way that they have control over instead of simply feeling powerless over the event that happened to them. I've personally found it to be a fantastic way to help me regain control over my own life. I don't think it's fair to other survivors who read/write/whatever rape fanworks to be judged and labeled as disgusting for doing so. I personally find it rather insulting when someone says that I am disgusting and "glorifying rape" for finding a way to cope with it that helps me, and several others as well. Unless you ask, you have no way of knowing what a person's motivation is for liking something, and it's unfair to assume.

I know that it's a common coping mechanism. Personally, I can understand both sides and I don't really know how to create a solution. I'm just trying to keep the OP from being dogpiled, here.

I think the best solution is for people who don't like it to ignore it if it's not hurting anyone (and I don't think it does, provided people are warned about what they're reading before they read it - anyone who is "inspired" to rape someone or finds rape glamorous due to reading about it has much, much deeper issues), and for the people who do like it to properly warn people what their fanfiction contains in case it's something they want to avoid. It's a mutual respect thing. I'm a firm believer in the "there are no thoughts that are wrong to think" philosophy - it's all in how you act on those thoughts.

I may not be right, but I'm an arrogant bitch and I like to think I am.

That's a fine solution, except for when it comes up in places like this... I don't know. I just think that civility and patience is important.