[ SECRET POST #4459 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4459 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Dan Bern, WTNV, I Only Listen To the Mountain Goats, the Mountain Goats]



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02.


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03.


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04.


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05.


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06.
[The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel]


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07.
[Director James Gunn, Guardians of the Galaxy franchise]











Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #638.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Considering how violently and horribly Tony reacted, I'd say Steve was right to think that the hunch/hint he got from a villain (not a direct confirmation, remember) was not something he needed to immediately share.

[(Anonymous)]

Considering how he reacted after just watching his parents be murdered in front of him, you mean? On video, sure, but still in front of him when he'd had absolutely no reason to suspect it. I'm pretty sure in all the time Steve knew he could have come up with a situation where a) Tony had some lead up, b) Tony didn't have to watch it happen and c) where the unwilling weapon the murderers used, the face he's just watched murder his mother, wasn't standing right there.

All that aside, the fact that the family of victim might react violently is not an excuse to just never mention the fact that someone was murdered. Of course they're going to react violently. Their family was murdered. You still don't get to just keep it a secret because it's easier for you if you don't have to deal with that. Steve went to fucking war once upon a time. Cowardice is not an excuse to lie and cover up a murder in order to avoid potential violence.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Steve's reasons as "because it's easier." Why do you think it was easier for him? Why do you think his actions are cowardice?

[(Anonymous)]

The comment above me was the one that said Tony's reaction to his parents' murder was enough of a reason for Steve not to tell him. If that's the case, then it is pure cowardice. If you're going to back down from telling the truth about an innocent woman's murder because you don't want to face the reaction to it, when you have willfully torn down entire government agencies for treason yourself and damn the consequences, then you are a coward. What the hell was it about Tony's potential reaction that he couldn't have just faced, instead of lying and keeping silent and letting the murders go without justice or even acknowledgement?

[(Anonymous)]

After spending an entire movie lecturing everyone about due process and accountability, Tony reacted with intent to MURDER, not just punch Bucky in the face and be done with it. He even KNEW Bucky was controlled and had no choice or will in the matter, and said straight up "I don't care."

[(Anonymous)]

Because he had literally just watched his mother be murdered. And turned around to find the face that killed her standing right there. You do not watch someone you love die in front of you and react rationally.

If I remember right, the film makers even said they did that on purpose, they set it up exactly like that to produce that reaction. As did Zola. The entire situation was set up do he'd have no option except to react emotionally. And yes, he walked right into it and gave them exactly what they wanted, but if someone murders my mother and I turn around and they're standing right beside me, I am 100% smashing their face in myself.

But, true. You don't have to forgive him for it. Neither does Steve, neither does Bucky. But by exactly the same token, he doesn't have to forgive them for what they've done. (Mostly Steve, Bucky's actions were against his will - though even still, even if someone did not willingly murder your family, that doesn't mean you should have to look at them ever again when they still have). Which is what I mean. That entire relationship is past salvaging. The things they have done to each other in these movies are beyond the pale. This is not ... Cut them out. Have them be done with each other. This is not a relationship that has ever helped anybody, least of all either of the people in it. What is there to salvage in a relationship that started out with interpersonal strife and graduated to lies and secrets and violence? Where people hide murders and respond to each other's actions with violence? Where there is no trust and never has been?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm never going to believe that, and I don't even like Stark. But he went up against Thor and space leviathans in a much older model suit, so if he really intended to kill, two super soldiers would hardly be a match for him.

[(Anonymous)]

Man, I'm sorry that Steve never found the right time to tell his coworker "hey an evil Nazi ghost uploaded to a computer in a military bunker implied while openly taunting me that my brainwashed friend MIGHT have been forced to kill your dad (who he was also friends with) while being mindcontrolled and intermittently frozen over the last 70 years. I would have told you sooner but there was an evil cult taking over the government and threatening to kill millions of people (including you), so that kinda came first."

Also, I'm curious what your opinion is on Peter Quill's actions in Infinity War.

[(Anonymous)]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were two years between Winter Soldier and Civil War. That's a lot of time not to tell someone. More than I can forgive.

I haven't seen Infinity War. What have Peter Quill's actions got to do with anything?

[(Anonymous)]

In between Winter Soldier and Civil War was Age of Ultron, in which the two of them were ANYTHING but friendly with each other (and in which Tony pulled some awful shit of his own, more than /I/ can forgive. He was my fave before that movie.)

Ah, okay. I asked because in Infinity War, Peter reacts violently to finding out a loved one was recently killed by someone who was right in front of him, and he's been getting a lot of shit from fans for that reaction (because it did fuck up a plan, but the murder had happened mere /hours/ before) while Tony usually gets a pass.

[(Anonymous)]

And there was a year between WS and AoU. A year for him to sit on the knowledge that two people had been murdered and tell no one. I'm sorry. By my lights, you just don't get to hide that and still have my respect. There are some things where, if you have any courage and decency at all, you stand up and say it. There is no excuse for a lie or omission of that magnitude. Someone was murdered.

[(Anonymous)]

And someone was a POW who was tortured and brainwashed for 70 years.

(Jumping back in here....I’m not the OP of the last few comments but I did comment a few posts back.)

I guess...I’m not trying to change your mind here. Obviously to you it is a very black and white situation. It just isn’t to me. They both made mistakes. Steve didn’t tell Tony what Zola said/implied. Tony tried to murder Bucky.

I mean, fair disclosure of bias - I’m more on Steve’s side than Tony’s in this. I like Tony, but I’ve found it impossible to side with him since Ultron, and I felt like he did the same thing all over again with the Accords. On the other hand, I wasn’t entirely happy with Steve in CW either. The whole Lagos debacle was entirely on him, and other than that one short scene with Wanda when they’re watching the news, the movie makes no acknowledgement of that, preferring to entirely put it onto Wanda and her scary powers. I would have been much happier if Steve had stepped up and taken more responsibility for what happened, and taken a more forceful stance in arguing against Ross’s bullshit.

So yeah, they both screwed up. But then Thanos came. And wiped out half the population of the universe. I guess under those circumstances I feel like there’s room for them to view things in a different perspective and to find some forgiveness and move forward.

But as always, mileage will vary.