fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #619 ]

⌈ Secret Post #619 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain MULLETS.

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Notes:

Early cause I gotta run and get books/class/etc ethgkjehtkgh

WE'RE RANK SOMETHING → [ env sec ind tra pop com ]

Secrets Left to Post: 17 pages, 404 secrets from Secret Submission Post #089.
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Because there were no homosexuals in the concentration camps, amirite? The gay rights movement just made up the pink triangle, did they? People didn't reach out to each other for love, for a little bit of humanity in those camps?

Honestly, without reading the fic, I have no way of knowing if it was handled tastefully or not, but I don't deny the possibility that it could have been.

Dude... it's not the homosexual. It's the FLUFF PORN. For a lot of people the holocaust is way too soon, and to treat it as a place where fluffy lighthearted romance sex of any type went on (especially among inmates) that's crass and disrespectful. It's like not taking the situation seriously.

She probably would have had less flames if she'd written graphic ugly homosexual rape and torture in that context.

Well, from the way the secret was worded, the OP made it sound like teh gay was everyone's biggest problem with it. And I think the phrase "fluff porn" is a little to vague to make these kind of value judgments without reading the fic. Personally, when I saw the phrase, I thought "probably very tenderly portrayed, probably not very explicit or detailed, probably (as I said before) about two people reaching out to each other in the darkness" none of which I feel is impossible to portray while also keeping true to the dark and horrific backdrop of the camps.

There's a movie, called "Bent", about two men who meet and fall in love in Dachau. They never actually have sex, but many of their interactions are sexually charged. In no way does the film ever let you forget what horrible conditions they live in, and the sort of brutality they have to suffer.

I repeat, without reading it, there is no way of knowing if it was handled tastefully. And while I can appreciate that some people may think the subject is inherently distasteful, it does not mean that the author has done anything objectively wrong, any more than the writers of "Bent" did.

I was with the OP until the disclaimer that her fic was sheer fucking FLUFF and then... like a lightbulb...

Not having seen these dosens of flames, or the story in question, I of course, have no idea if the community was rabidly homophobic or not, but I do know that fluff and holocaust do not go together unless you add black humor to the list as well. It's like fluffy pedophilia. It's going to squick people.

The fact that the OP automatically assumes that Fluff = non-squicky in all contexts makes me wonder if she may have also assumed flames = homophobia.

EDIT: Also the movie Bent doesn't sound like fluff to me. It sounds like ANGST.

Edited 2008-09-16 16:13 (UTC)

I maintain that one can portray fluffy sex in a decidedly non-fluffy environment. I mean, an outstanding proportion of hurt/comfort fics take place in dungeons and jail cells, and much of h/c is fluff. Again, we may be operating with different definitions of "fluff", but I think the fact that the OP contrasts it with "hardcore" should say enough in that regard. In principle, it is no more distasteful than "Life is Beautiful", which is about a father trying to make life in a concentration camp seem like a game for his son. There are a number of laughs in that movie, but you never once forget the terrible circumstances that have brought them there.

Yeah, I think we must have different definitions.

Fluff for me means an absense of angst. It's hot-cocoa fic, a walk through the park with your lover, all the warm gooey enjoyment of romance without anything more emotionally painful going on than maybe some miscommunication. If that's going on in a concentration camp, while they are starving, hurt, terrified, then they aren't acting like people to me.

Now Hurt/Comfort would work. But Fluff? Not so much.

Ah, there we have it then. I mean, I agree with your definition in regards to calling a whole story "fluff", but the way the OP worded it made me think she was only referring to the sex, which I refer to as "fluff" whenever most of the focus is placed on the emotional over the physical (and 'hardcore' sex is the other way round)

But yeah, if she meant the whole story was fluff, I'd be right there with you. Or at the very least, mocking the OP for "HOLOCAUST FIC: UR DOIN IT RONG"

Yeah. And since I have some actual experience poking around (not on LJ but other places) with historical holocaust fics, my experience has been that slash goes over just fine -- but every single one of the fics has been sheer angst.

h/c is not fluff -- it's the opposite of fluff. Sweet and tender =/= fluff. Fluff = NOT SERIOUS.

Fluff = "A genre in which the story is devoid of angst and takes on a mood of light-hearted romance" according to wikipedia. (emphasis mine).

You can portray fluffy sex in a non-fluffy environment, but you will squick people if you do, because it will appear that you have no respect for the environment they are in. There are a large portion of people out there who can't take a concentration camp any way but seriously. Perhaps an amazing writer can manage their readers emotions well enough to get away with it, but I'm guessing the OP isn't that amazing.

Edited 2008-09-16 16:49 (UTC)

Again, I agree with that definition of fluff as applied to the whole story, but I don't think that's what the OP meant.

Also, considering how fluid and non-central fandom is, I don't put much stock in Wikipedia definitions.

Also, yes parts of "Bent" are angsty, but there's also a few scenes that I think qualify as fluff, including an almost-sex scene.

[ SECRET POST #619 ]

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