[ SECRET POST #4475 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4475 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 48 secrets from Secret Submission Post #641.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. https://i.imgur.com/l5FcyB1.jpg

[esteefee]

Me, too, OP. I still adore Firefly and Buffy, and it's because of the characters.

[tabaqui]

No need to sound...what...apologetic? The shows were/are fun and interesting, and it's okay to enjoy them even *with* their issues (and his).

I love the characters, too, for the most part. Some are meh, but mostly - yes, very fun. 'Out of Gas', where we get everyone's origin stories, is consistently my favorite.

[poisonyoulove]

Wait, who are the people who think Firefly is overrated? Tell me so I can avoid them.

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone who saw Joss Wedon show a momentary weakness, declared him The Worst Thing Ever, and then immediately went for the jugular. Rian Johnson and Taika Waititi are due for the same treatment in about two years, by my calculations.

[(Anonymous)]

Plenty of the criticism aimed at Joss is absolutely correct, though. Don't try to play this off as somehow undeserved.

[(Anonymous)]

This is exactly what I mean. Joss isn't a perfect writer, but the backlash against him was huge because he got such a huge push beforehand. When he didn't measure up to the Hypothetical Perfect Example, revealing a decent writer with some serious weaknesses that were looked over, the switch to Worst Writer Ever was HUGE.

Fandom gets really attached to popular creators, then rejects them when they fuck up. It happens a lot. I'm not excusing Joss, just noting that there's patterns in people's reactions to popular writers.

[(Anonymous)]

Or, people who watched the show?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree.

[(Anonymous)]

no shame in that, anon. characters and their voices are definitely his strong point.

[(Anonymous)]

Can I ask why joss is so bad, I mean I herd he cheated on his wife alot but does he have other things that make him such a horrible human being. I guess I am out of the loop I like a lot of his work so I am lost

[(Anonymous)]

where to begin...

well, what's relevant for firefly is that apparently china was a big enough influencer as humans colonized space that they speak mandarin but there are no chinese characters. that's a start.

[(Anonymous)]

Of all things, that's where you start? That's so miniscule. I think Joss and the other writers themselves forgot most of the time that China was supposedly a big influence for all that we saw of it. It was mentioned a couple times and that was it, it wasn't like we constantly saw Chinese aesthetics on the show and they really don't speak Mandarin except for the occasional swear. It was a throwaway idea.

However, I always thought Simon and River were at least half Asian because of their looks and last name, but that had nothing to do with the supposed Chinese influence, I just thought that's what they happened to be.

[(Anonymous)]

Can I ask why joss is so bad, I mean I herd he cheated on his wife alot but does he have other things that make him such a horrible human being.

It seems like a lot of people had started disliking him before the cheating thing broke, and then the cheating thing just sent the dislike over the top.

From what I recall, the main criticisms against him were that 1) his writing has some race issues, 2) he praised this very long article discussing the problems with modern intersectionality in feminism, and 3) people think the way he writes female characters is fetishy? Or something?

Then the cheating story broke and a lot of people took it to mean he was sexually abusing women he worked with and also gaslighting his wife. Personally, I disagree with this interpretation of events.

I also don't have any problem with how he writes female characters, and I thought that article he praised had some very valid points. The only one I really agree with is that Buffy and Firefly do have some issues with race. Mainly, Firefly really should've had - bare minimum - one main character who was Chinese. And the way the Robin Wood + Nikki Wood + William The Bloody + Spike storyline was handled in BtVS wasn't great.

[(Anonymous)]

What the fuck. I never knew any of this. Zoye is THE female role model for me (well, she and Ripley), she is in a central cast and she is a person of color! such a load of bull.

[(Anonymous)]

I would say his strengths are characters AND also dialogue.

I think Buffy kinda changed they way audiences expected people in media to talk. More unassuming and playfully sardonic. Self-aware but also prone to making up words and accidental innuendos.

It's surreal to watch the MCU movies, especially those with Whedon's involvement, utilized this mechanic as a key part of their appeal.

Those movies would NOT work without the banter.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not thrilled about that, mainly because the "snarky one-liner" thing gets tried on by too many fanfic writers, and was a particularly noteworthy aspect of Cassandra Claire's plagiarism as well. :\

[(Anonymous)]

It's a VERY easy dialogue style to mess up because you as the writer actually have to be witty yourself.

Buffy was so long ago but so impactful, it makes sense we're still poor imitations of it.

The worse MCU movies, which I view going in as basically live action cartoons, for me are the ones trying to go grimdark. The second Thor movie comes to mind. What a drag.

The strength of the series isn't really the CGI or fight scenes, crucial yes, but not the point. It's the characters. It's their relationships. The banter to me always reminded me of how military squads often develop a kind of blase jargon to undercut the tension of their missions.

The snarky quips are to maintain sanity in deadly situations. I love the movies best when after the friendships are built with all the playful teasing, it all falls away when things get real and one of their own is endangered.

They're popcorn flicks, sure, but it works for me. I think they play it well, at least now that they seem to have the hang of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Funnily, Whedon's dialogue really annoyed me in Avengers #1 because suddenly none of the characters sounded like themselves. It was like that episode of CSI that Tarantino wrote and directed. I think I would get.tired of Whedon dialogue really quickly.

[(Anonymous)]

Also, Whedon Cap and Thor are the worst Cap and Thor.

[philstar22]

He doesn't get any of the Avengers right.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but Cap and Thor get it the worst because they're the characters that he least relates to.

[(Anonymous)]

he's the only one who's written wanda right and for all the praise the russos get for their take on natasha they've fucked up a lot of things regarding her but okay

[philstar22]

I thought he did okay with her when she was on Ultron's side. But the changing of sides wasn't written too well. And actually, for all its problems, I thought the one thing Civil War got right was Wanda. Which wouldn't be Whedon. But to each their own.

[philstar22]

Yup, I agree. He does better with his own original creations, I feel. He just doesn't get other people's characters. I agree with the OP that characters are usually his strong suit. But that's when he creates his own. He doesn't do a good job at all with characters when he's adapting someone else's.