[ SECRET POST #4483 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4483 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 29 secrets from Secret Submission Post #642.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. https://i.imgur.com/8c5sGUB.png

[(Anonymous)]

They're probably both gonna die in Endgame anyway so I wouldn't worry.

[(Anonymous)]

One can only hope.

[silverr]

Agreed, so much.

[(Anonymous)]

IA.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I can't believe MCU screwed up an epic friendship that badly. Way to go! This isn't the comics, assholes. You can't just reboot a year later.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. The relationship has been a dumpster fire from day 1. I love both characters separately, but together they just annoy me.

Teal deer: I ship it but you are 100% right

[(Anonymous)]

As a shipper, I am self-aware enough to acknowledge this secret as truth. Their relationship embodies instability at best and toxicity at worst. Though my priorities when it comes to this simple fact are different from yours; they lie with the issue that I cannot find shipfic of them that does not eventually get emotional and make me cry. Honest to god, my recent favorite started out as a crackfic about various younger Avengers being in kindergarten with Thanos as their fed-up teacher. How that turned into Steve-and-Tony-have-a-mutual-lack-of-ability-to-actually-communicate angst I will never know.

All I can find that does not fit the pattern is lemons (do people still say that anymore?), which I am not interested in.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't hate their relationship, and I don't think it's irredeemable. I'm just...not interested in it. I find their characters work much better with others, and I'd rather focus on those relationships. But I'm also realistic and know that they're the two biggest stars in the thing and so keeping them apart won't happen. For however long they have left, that is.

[(Anonymous)]

I don’t really agree, for the most part. I mean, yeah, I think the MCU messed it up. They seemed to think it was more interesting to have them constantly on opposite sides than to actually put in the work to develop the comics relationship. And I’ve been annoyed with they’ve been doing with Tony since Ultron.

That said, I do find the character contrast in their relationship to be one of the more interesting. I guess I enjoy more the potential of what it could have been (in a non-shipping sense). And while Steve is my favorite character, I still consider Tony one of my favorites as well (largely on the strength of RDJ’s portrayal, I’ll admit). So I look forward to any friendship moments we may get in Endgame - fleeting though they may be.

[philstar22]

I don't even need them to be best friends. Like, just a general work friendship shared with all the Avengers, cool. But they both already have best friends, and I don't think they need each other in that way. Plus, it isn't like it is impossible to be friends with people very different from you. Look at Steve and Nat. It is just that Steve and Tony don't click in that way, and that's okay.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with this secret a 1000%. I like Steve and Tony’s friendship in the comics. They’re great. But the MCU butchered it from day 1 and made it so hard to buy the whole “I thought I was your friend” bit from Tony in civil war. I must’ve slept through thosse moments because their relationship at its best was courteous work pals and antagonistic head butting rivals at its worst. I know everyone likes to handwave with the scepter influencing them but the movies never really developed any friendship between them unlike say Steve and Nat or Tony and Bruce.

[(Anonymous)]

Basically agreed with most of the comments here - the MCU completely failed to build a friendship, or even a generally respectful working relationship, between these two. The idea of such a thing only really came by osmosis from the comics fandom, and the fanbase trying to create one in fanworks (before AOU shat on that). It's impossible to care about their quarrels on a personal level, I think - this isn't two longtime friends falling out in a tragic fashion, this is two guys who never liked each other much having a fistfight in a parking lot.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like if you're not into the comics at all, and only watch the movies, the significance of this entire argument is kind of lost.

Like, they managed to learn to work together in Avengers, despite being kind of at odds, and then they were friends (though also still kind of at odds) in AoU, and then CW happened and it all fell apart. From my perspective, they were barely friends in the first place. They had a wobbly, fledgling friendship, but it wasn't established to a degree where it felt like a major part of who the characters were or anything.

So when I read a secret like this, my reaction (with zero snark intended) is, "Yeah, and?" Like, I agree that they just don't work well together. Their personalities clash. It seems clear that Steve has Avengers that he gels with best, and Tony has Avengers that he gels with best, and there's really no reason that Tony and Steve should have to be pals.

But to me there's nothing...provocative or contra-canonical about that. Like, I'm not annoyed that the MCU brought them to this point, but I will be annoyed if the movies try to make them out to be besties in the future. (Though as everyone else is saying, I doubt they'll be around that long anyway. *sobs*)

[(Anonymous)]

i mean. They kinda tried to make it sound like they were besties. Tony’s whole reaction to Steve protecting Bucky and being all wounded about the “I THOUGHT WE WERE FRIENDS STEVE!!!” falls completely flat and has no emotional weight whatsoever. It wouldn’t have been out of place for Steve to reply “since when???” because whedon never made an effort to show friendship and the franchise was handed off to the Russos and forced to adapt the shittiest event comic that the emotional weight hinges on breaking a decades long friendship when there was no friendship to break so they just tell us no guise they really were friends. (And a million other reasons why civil war sucked but that’s besides the point)

[(Anonymous)]

i mean. They kinda tried to make it sound like they were besties. Tony’s whole reaction to Steve protecting Bucky and being all wounded about the “I THOUGHT WE WERE FRIENDS STEVE!!!” falls completely flat and has no emotional weight whatsoever.

I only really got that this was the intention when I saw how the more invested fans were responding to CW. Watching CW didn't succeed in conveying it to me. I mean, I understood that they both felt betrayed by the other in their own ways. And I actually found the final fight scene reasonably impactful (thought it felt like the writers had to force it into happening, a bit). But for me, the emotional impact didn't arise from, "Oh no, their incredible friendship! It's broken!" What I got from that scene was more along the lines of Yeats' The Second Coming: Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;[...]The ceremony of innocence is drowned.

But it definitely doesn't feel like they should've done Civil War when they did - if at all. If the MCU decision makers had been confident enough to do two more Avengers movies in which the Avengers were a strong team and good friends, then maybe they could done a CW scenario and gotten the emotional impact they were looking for. But as it was, it just felt flat and a little nonsensical. (And I say that despite the fact that, as a casual fan, I'm easy to please and enjoyed CW well enough.)