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[ SECRET POST #4511 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4511 ⌋

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Is this collapsed? I got a book.

So...I like the episode more today than I did yesterday. But that doesn't say much.

I liked a lot of the spectacle. Had this been the culmination of a whole season, it would have been amazing. Mad Queen Dany is pretty awesome. Emilie Clarke can really sell the crazy.

Sadly, it wasn't. It was Dany going from like a 3 to 100. So, it felt too sudden to feel natural. But that is the theme of this season. Same goes for the Unsullied and Northerners. They just suddenly start raping and pillaging???

Also, Dany is such a Nice Guy. WHY WON'T MY NEPHEW FUCK ME AFTER I WAS SO NICE TO HIM??!?!?!?

Varys's death was stupid as fuck as well. Why would Tyrion snitch on him?! How did Varys, the sneakiest fucker ever, get so sloppy? Why would Jon be okay with them just killing him in the middle of the night by FIRE? I guess I can at least rationalize that by saying Jon and Tyrion are terrified of her.

Jaime and Cersei's end was stupid as fuck. Jaime's character development was a fucking loop. It completely disregards all the changes he has made in his life. The man who ruined his reputation to save King's Landing suddenly doesn't give a fuck about innocents? Okay. I don't even understand WHY he went North. He could have stayed in the South with Cersei this whole time and nothing would have changed in terms of his story line.

And then Cersei dies in a fucking cave in? In the arms of his lover? In a way that is seemingly supposed to illicit sympathy from the viewers? Like, boo hoo, your baby is going to die? You deserve you hateful monster. She did not deserve to die sympathetically in the same episode Dany turned full tilt evil.

Also, Euron should have just died on the boat. The fight between him and Jaime was pointless and didn't add anything to the story.

In relation to that, why did the fleet suddenly lose their ability to shoot weapons? Or really mount any kind of counter attack? Again, I have to reach and say, that the sun apparently made them lose all ability to aim.

I did like some of it.

While I didn't like the how suddenly Dany turned Mad Queen, the actual event was brutally well done. The footage of Arya running around in the horror was reminiscent (probably purposefully) of 9/11 footage. With the ash billowing down, people running covered in blood, and destroyed buildings. There was a silent part were I thought, "Oh, we should be hearing sirens".

I was genuinely distressed during all of the destruction. It was just so horrific. Had it been the culmination of a season of build up, it would have been even more impactful.

Speaking of, Arya and the Hound's final conversation was great. I love that he is the one that tells her killing Cersei is not worth it. I also love that Arya rides out on a white horse. Is it symbolic of her letting go of her list? Or, has she become death upon a pale horse? Or, did they just have a white horse around?

Another thing I enjoyed was Cleganebowl. It was everything I wanted it to be. Plus the environment was fantastic. The stairs collapsing around them as the smoke billows in is great. I was fine with them both dying.

I mentioned above that I don't get why the Northerners went nuts. I sort of get the Unsullied and Dothraki. That is their thing. But the Northerners were not really part of that. However, I do like Jon's facial expressions. Just his utter devastation at what Dany and his Northern army has done. Kit Harrington did very good this episode.

Edited 2019-05-13 23:16 (UTC)

You liked it better than I did then because I hated about 90% of it. I don't even like Jaime and even then I thought it was stupid to throw his character development out the window. And if that was their plan with Dany, they needed to do a hell of a lot more to sell it.

And, of course, they have the Northern army do it but leave Jon out of it. Because flawless Jon Snow has to remain flawless. Ugh. No.

Jon's choices made sense, though? Hell, out of everyone his was most in character. He only fights when he has to and his honor is important to him because of Ned. If Jon had gone bersek, that would have been ridiculous.

Oh I know. I just feel like they've written him to be this perfect, noble, boring character. They specifically wrote a plot where Jon was the only one who came off looking good. They in no way had to write it this way.

The Starks are always going to be the "good guys". Arya has also came off as good in this. Hell, even the Hound does. But that is because they have been building up to their character arcs for a while.

The Starks weren't the only good guys, though, at least until this season. Dany was as much a main character and as much a good guy as the Starks. The Tyrells were good.

I loved the Tyrells. I can't really say anything about Dany because I have never liked her character or story line. Any time Dany was on screen before Season 6, I was bored and waiting for it to move back to someplace more interesting.

Re: SPOILERS

philstar22 - 2019-05-13 23:36 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah I don't get Jaime's story this season. He chooses to leave Cersei even though she's pregnant with his child and on the verge of being usurped. If he was still in love with Cersei and has been faithful to her his whole life, what's changed now that he's decided to stop?

His entire relationship with Brienne he's always defended her honour, and now what? He just wanted to ruin her life by taking her virginity and then fucking off? When like five minutes ago if anyone else had done the same thing he would have killed them?

Did he just want to prove to himself that he was horrible like Cersei and they deserved each other? Was that what the writers were trying to do? Because it just reads like two different people arguing over Jaime's story this season and then agreeing they should do both a Jaime is a good person who realises Cersei sucks and leaves her storyline AND a Jaime is a shit person who will only ever love Cersei storyline.

The only moment I can remember linking the two was Tyrion's line about how Jaime knew what Cersei was like the whole time. So are we supposed to think he was lying to himself about that or what?

Euron. Ugh. Do not get me started. Magical pirate bullshit plot device.

I'm mad Sandor is dead too. I knew it was likely but fuck it I wanted him to go back with the Starks and be a fat happy old man after killing Gregor.

Sandor builds himself a cabin in the north and eats all the chickens he wants. Tormund and Ghost visit.

Yes! When he says there's only one thing that will make him happy, he was clearly talking about eating all the chickens.

I like your version of the ending. I'm going to pretend that's what happened.

Is it symbolic of her letting go of her list? Or, has she become death upon a pale horse? Or, did they just have a white horse around?

Deep in your heart, you know which option it is.

I was trying to be optimistic. :/

I'm sorry, all I am good at is sarcasm in these trying times. And dunking on the writers because Holy Shit, lmao.

Y'know what would have been cool? Instead of this random horse that somehow survived, Nymeria showed up and pulled Arya out of the wreckage. Like in the books how Lady Stoneheart is pulled out of the river.

Hot damn anon, you're onto something!

But, alas, we must get rid of all the direwolves for the show.

No direwolves, ONLY FIRE AND BOOM.

So I'm holding out hope Jaime isn't dead, partly because we haven't seen any dead bodies, but mostly because I'm an eternal moron who'll likely be proven wrong next week.

There was this weird moment just before Euron died, and he was gloating about having killed Jaime, and he LOOKS UP AT THE CAMERA as if to drive the point home. It's random things like that that make me think this is a fake-out and maybe the worst of the rubble didn't take Jaime out.

Of course, everything and everyone is trying to point to any other conclusion. I swear anyone who's given an interview on this episode has lost their mind. It used to be, oh, J/B, what a great unspoken romance, it was meant to be! and now it's J/C were destined to be together, it was always known and they could never escape it! Make. up. your. goddamn. minds. JFC.

I like the episode better than the last one too, but weirdly I'm now even unhappier about how we got up here because, yeah, if this had been the culmination of seasons-long buildup everything would have been so much more impactful.

I am also of the (maybe controversial?) opinion that this last episode is actually the ending GRRM intended. Yes, even the fact that Jaime's character arc is a circle. The show gave themselves fuck all time to set up all the plot beats effectively, but I think this is where we are meant to end up.

Me too actually. Sure, it's a lot quicker and may be slightly different than his plan, but I can't see them deviating massively.

Basically THIS to this whole comment.

So, it felt too sudden to feel natural. But that is the theme of this season.

Yeah, everything this season has been at a breakneck pace, and Dany is just the epitome of it. Her story felt like whiplash.

While I didn't like the how suddenly Dany turned Mad Queen, the actual event was brutally well done. The footage of Arya running around in the horror was reminiscent (probably purposefully) of 9/11 footage. With the ash billowing down, people running covered in blood, and destroyed buildings. There was a silent part were I thought, "Oh, we should be hearing sirens".

The whole thing was admittedly horrifying and impactful. And there was actually a little bit that I kind of, sort of appreciated at the start of the rampage, in that I think it was meant to be something of a visual explanation for why the North flipped out and got their rape-and-pillage on. When the camera was focused on that child against the pillar while the North ran rampant, and the Northern soldier slits a woman's throat for trying to defend her son, I'm nearly positive that was meant to be a direct call-back to the Red Wedding and Catelyn's death. To show that a) the North in this instance has become equally horrifying and dishonourable, but also possibly b) that was the reason they became equally horrifying and dishonourable. After everything they've recently been through, to have to come down south and fight another fucking murderous Lannister ... When Dany flipped out and so violently avenged Missandei, and Grey Worm and the Unsullied flipped out and violently avenged their loved ones, I think it was meant to show that the North just let go and did the same for seven seasons worth of southern bullshit and atrocities and everything else they've had to live through lately while the south sat on its pretty Lannister ass and did fuck all.

I mean, it didn't really explain all that much, and it didn't make anything any less utterly horrifying, but I did appreciate the little visual reference?

I didn't catch that nod to the RW, but I could definitely see that connection, and the North being tired of the South's shit.

Someone on the internet (hahahaha) made an argument that was a little bit twisted and containing a hole or two, but I could see the logic in it. The losses the North sustained while fighting the NK and the army of the undead were great, and while they were doing all of that for the future of Westeros (and probably the world), KL was just sitting there, doing nothing, waiting, betting their own future on the sacrifice of the North. You know, instead of doing their part in defending the country and fighting alongside their brothers. So it was time to rebalance the scales and take out some numbers on the southern side, because only life can pay for life and all that.

Personally, I do think it was a mix of northeners being part weary, possibly part bitter, and susceptible to any crazy shit as a crowd may normally be when you get too many people together in a crazy situation where all it takes is one push. Kind of like a "everybody else is doing it" thing.

I definitely do think there was a massive element of crowd action in there as well, and maybe a bit that the sheer shock of Dany/Drogon's rampage kind of signalled a complete break-down of normal order. Plus, there probably was an element of, once Grey Worm started the assault, the Lannisters/Red Cloaks were going to fight back ANYWAY, and they were unlikely to spare Northerners, so once the fight was joined at all there was no point holding back. And then, because nothing is ordered and everything is crazy and everyone knows that nobody is doing what they're supposed to be doing, it just devolves completely from there. Add in several seasons worth of resentment and bitterness, and you've got a lovely recipe for chaos and atrocity.

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[ SECRET POST #4511 ]

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