fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4522 ]

[ SECRET POST #4522 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4522 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[The Matrix]

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03.

[Mr Meaty]

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04.

[Roxanne from A Goofy Movie]

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05. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]

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06. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]

[Arya/Gendry]

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07. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]

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08. [SPOILERS for Avengers Endgame]

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09. [SPOILERS for Avengers Endgame]

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10. [SPOILERS for Dawson's Creek]

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11. [WARNING for abuse, etc.]

[ProJared]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #647.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Racism against white people isn't a thing. "Regular racism/sexism" isn't a thing. Racism and sexism are inherently institutional. That's part of their definition. An individual woman can be prejudiced against men. But sexism/sex discrimination has a power component.

Well, that is bullshit but you do you.

I am sure the victims of the Zebra killers are comforted to know that the fact they were targeted for being white wasn't racism.

What would you call it?

I'd call it prejudice. Racism and sexism aren't about individual views of individual people. They are about institutions and systems that give power to some groups at the expense of other groups. When someone is prejudiced against white people, the systems don't support that prejudice and they are just one person with prejudiced views. When someone is prejudiced against black people, the system supports that and helps them have power over black people. That's what racism is. It isn't about individuals, it is about systems.

No...it isn't. Historically, racism is just about someone of one race hating someone of another race. Like...have you READ the definition?

racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Your definition didn't exist until 1970 and wasn't popularized until the 00s.

Words have meanings. You are talking about institutionalized racism whe doing prejudice + power.

Yes, words have meanings. And meanings can change. Also, in this case, we're not just talking about words, we're talking about concepts. And our understanding of those concepts have developed. Just because that definition is newer doesn't make it wrong. Our understanding of what discrimination is has developed. We now understand the role institutions and power play and that those are the root of what it actually is. Unless you are suggesting we should just go back to the pre-1970s understanding of racism and sexism and pretend that all progress on the subjects haven't happened? I hope that's not what you are suggesting.

I am suggesting that maybe you understand that words can have MULTIPLE meanings. Even sociologists and psychologists who study this shit know that there is a difference between INDIVIDUAL racism and INSTITUTIONAL racism. They are both racism just different levels.

So, an individual black person can be racist against white people. That is individual racism.

However, the government (of the US at the current time) cannot be racist against white people because there is not a contingent of non-white people in power. That is institutional racism.

I just don't think what you are talking about as individual racism is racism. I think it is prejudice, but I don't think it is racism. Obviously we aren't going to agree on this. I'm done at this point. We're just arguing in circles.

True, because I can't imagine how anyone can think hating someone because of their race isn't racism. ◔̯◔ It is literally in the name.

Why do you think it's useful to draw the distinction between racism and prejudice when one already exists with individual racism and institutional racism?

Because I don't think that's the distinction that exists. I think the distinction that exists is between prejudice and discrimination and that racism is a type of discrimination. Because I don't think "individual racism" is a useful concept because what we need to discuss and deal with in terms of racism is the institutions, systems, and cultural power structures. Either an individual person will change their mind or they won't. But it is the power structures that give racism (and sexism) their power and allow them to endure. That's where the real problem is, and by using the term "racism" to describe a black person saying they hate white people (when a black person probably has lots of legitimate reasons to hate white people given actual racism) weakens the term. Focusing on what you call "individual racism" allows people to think that's the problem and to ignore the power structures. So I think making that distinction actively hurts the fight against real racism.

Would black people be "racist" against white people if white people weren't racist against black people and idk, historically treating them like animals and possessions first? Just something for you to think about.

Cool motive, still racism.

Spoken like a white male who never experienced any real hardship in his life.

*My* family didn't own slaves!! Why am I being held responsible for something *I* had nothing to do with?!

^this is what you sound like right now

Are you actually implying that "People should not be held accountable for things they didn't do" is an unreasonable position?

Hey, I think North Korea is hiring more people to punish the grandchildren of political criminals!

pretty sure white people killed a lot more pocs in history.
also white people are still targeting and killing pocs to this very day and on an institutional level instead of the other way around.

Cool! Doesn't matter. This isn't a contest. One action does not negate another. individual racism =/= institutional racism.

That is bullshit. Like, do you know history at ALL?

In the last 150-300 years? Maybe. I all of history? Shit you need to get back to school.

Racism and sexism are inherently institutional. That's part of their definition.

What? That's bullshit. The group of black teenagers I saw making fun of the waitress' accent in the Chinese restaurant the other day were being racist, full stop. The fact that they were both minorities doesn't matter, that was racist behavior because it was discrimination based on race.

I used to work in a place where the majority of my colleagues were black and we had a fair amount of Asian clients (East and South-East Asian, a variety of countries). Every time some hack on social media calls out "white people" for not being able to pronounce their Chinese name on the first try, I want to roll out the list of anecdotes I could write of my black colleagues mocking our clients' names and accents behind their backs.

This is a lot of tldr to say that both racism from white people against nonwhite people and racism from nonwhite people against other nonwhite people are bad.

Racism and sexism are inherently institutional. That's part of their definition.

As others are also saying, that isn't part of their definition. That is part of one specific definition. It's a definition that academia, in specific, seems to've had a permanent hard-on for, over the last fifteen years or so, but it's not the original definition, is not the definition you'll find in the majority of dictionaries, and is not some kind of largely agreed upon definition.

I am very much a feminist. And if you were arguing that systemic sexism and general sexism are not identical terms - that the differences are important and should be recognized - I would very much agree with you. But I disagree with the idea that discrimination against a man or men, by a woman or women, isn't sexism because it's not systemic sexism.

I'm afraid it really is a thing.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #4522 ]

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