fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4553 ]

[ SECRET POST #4553 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4553 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Just tonight I had a conversation with my boyfriend about how politically incorrect and yet enjoyable these guys are

What's politically incorrect about them?

everything.

OP of the original comment here!! (Secret harvester, thank you much!! That made my day <3)

Well... Art is interpretative and all, but I think ayrt might mean making songs about subjects such as rape, pedohilia, cannibalism, etc. from the POV of the offender is controversial even nowadays. One could make the case that they perpetuate, for example, the rape culture they talk about in heir lyrics.

I'd say that it's even more controversial these days. 1990's society as a whole were less likely to take band lyrics as a literal proclamation of the band's personal beliefs.

Yyou gotta be pretty blind to not notice they're critical of all the controversial topics they talk about. They're provocative but not politically incorrect.

they also made some holocaust references in their latest music video that the jewish central council (idk how to translate it to english) announced clearly that they disapproved of. so ~yet so enjoyable~ is pretty yikes from me. rammstein have nothing interesting to say with their provocations it's so pathetic how people eat their shit up.

Have you seen the video? If not then I don't think you can have an opinion about it, based on Jewish Council's reaction or whoever else's.

I mean... even if it isn't what it seemed like in the trailer - because yes, they did release a trailer for the music video, very much intentionally with the holocaust-centric footage in it just to generate controversy and publicity - the fact that a German band using holocaust imagery for shock value despite knowing full well that it is majorly frowned upon makes the whole thing tasteless and dickish at the very least. I mean, tastelessness is the band's whole deal, but still.

I thought the video and song were actually quite thoughtful. But you do realize that a TON of bands have used Nazi and Holocaust imagery, including the Sex Pistols and Bowie? And IMO in a much more fetishy way. Or is it somehow worse because they're German?

Or is it somehow worse because they're German?
Well. Yes. Yes it is. Mostly because using holocaust imagery for shock value is toeing a very thin line between just bad taste and being illegal here.
A lot of non-German bands' holocaust and Nazi imagery gets censored here as well (same goes for certain movies, video games and comics).

So, shock value imagery about a shock value issue is wrong? I don't think we get _enough_ shock value information about Holocaust. People forget very fast - I work in a holocaust museum and people get very displeased when I remind them about how it actually went, in detail.

It is when it's done for the sole purpose of generating outrage to increase the visibility of a product you're selling.

it wasn't the case, though

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2019-06-25 17:28 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2019-06-26 10:23 (UTC) - Expand

Actually, I understand where you're coming from in the sense that you are a part of the society they are trying to provoke and whose censorship they want to push. Of course it's not for you. (: But I don't agree with the censorship and silence about this topic, to be honest, and therefore appreciate this aspect of the provocation. It's a fundamental dimension of art, take or leave.

They are not provoking just to provoke, they are provoking to sell something. And that's not anywhere near that ~pure art~ that you are trying to allude to. And I'm fairly certain you don't live in Germany if you think censoring tasteless imagery is the same as silence about a topic. There isn't a lot of silence when it comes to this stuff here.

Re: AYRT

(Anonymous) - 2019-06-25 16:44 (UTC) - Expand

i, as a non-jew, do not presume to judge whether something is respectful of jewish history or not and quite frankly i am baffled that you think i should.

So you're basically saying that you're not intelligent enough and don't have enough of cultural and historical awareness to have an opinion about an issue? And you also refuse to get familiar with the issue in the first place, which doesn't make you more informed and educated whatsoever.

Jewish Council had issued their statement before the video had aired, by the way. Afterwards, tho, everyone was suspiciously silent about them being disrespectful or wrong.

Nayrt (anon upthread( - exactly. To judge the intention or content of a video on 5 seconds of it without context is to be willingly oblivious.

They intetionally used exactly that footage for the sole purpose of generating controversy. They knew what was going to happen, in fact they counted on it. Using holocaust imagery, regardless of whether or not it's bad in the end product, as a way to advertise their music is in poor taste. Which they are aware of, otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

They are provocative, yes. But they are not using said provocation to just gain money and popularity (they already have more than enough of those, I should think). They are provocative to deliver their message (a message that was entirely too right) - and tell you what, it worked. People are still talking about it, after all.
Art should be provocative and it should make people stop and think. Mellowing everything down, which is very popular these days, is doing everyone a disservice.

no i'm saying that i know how to stay in my lane and don't presume to know better than JEWS about the HOLOCAUST you dense fuck

Oh, you are illiterate. I excuse your ignorance then.

Jesus Christ, the whole discussion is beyond stupid. The song is basically about how difficult is to love Germany considering it's fucked up history and skipping Holocust would not be the correct choice when that's your topic.

Idk, to be fair their opinion was based on a 5-second clip of the video. In context it was a depiction of the Holocaust in a video about the history of Germany and the complicated relationship between man and nation. I mean... It would have not made much sense to leave the Holocaust out among the other time periods depicted.

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