[ SECRET POST #4599 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4599 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


[Spoilers and content warnings ahead.]





01. [SPOILERS for Jessica Jones season 3]




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02. [SPOILERS for Orange is the New Black]



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03. [SPOILERS for Good Omens]



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04. [SPOILERS for Endgame]



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05. [WARNING for discussion of sexual assault, dub/non-con]



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06. [WARNING for discussion of rape/assault]



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07. [WARNING for discussion of rape, pedophilia]

















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #658.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. [SPOILERS for Endgame]
https://i.imgur.com/4lA0T48.png

[(Anonymous)]

Trying to reason seriously about the ethics of time travel always leads to an incomprehensible morass of nonsense and theodicy and its usually not worth even trying in the first place

[(Anonymous)]

fandom: an incomprehensible morass of nonsense and theodicy and its usually not worth even trying in the first place

[(Anonymous)]

But it is fun.

[(Anonymous)]

my memory of the movie is hazy but wasn't that kind of... the point? it was selfish and he couldn't bear knowing he could change things, that's why he ended up joining the endeavour

[(Anonymous)]

I would not have expected the level of horror I felt at this secret, but uh, apparently I disagree?

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed.

It's actually really strange to me that after Infinity War's odd framing of love as weakness and sacrifice being strength (Gamora wanting to save Nebula from torture is weak, Quill being upset about Gamora is weak, Wanda not wanting to kill Vision is weak AND pointless, while Thanos gets rewarded for perceiving his abuse of his children as genuine love), one of our heroes loses no one and decides that billions upon billions of people should remain traumatized because he got his and he wants to keep it. If it wasn't Tony Stark, it would straight-up be villain behavior, wouldn't it?

[(Anonymous)]

He lost Peter Parker

[(Anonymous)]

Thanos gets decapitated and disintegrated.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

These sorts of discussions feel like having a beauty contest among the bugs you find in a ripe can of garbage ...

... of course the only thing to do there is pick the lesser weevil.

[(Anonymous)]

You and me both, anon.

[(Anonymous)]

Am I understanding you correctly? "Why does he care more about his own child than someone else's? Why does he care so much about the death of Peter Parker, a boy he felt responsible and who died in his arms?" Is that what you're asking here?

[(Anonymous)]

Humans are inherently selfish and trying to say that's always a bad thing is just silly. No one can care about everything in the world at the same time for the same amount. But okay, whatever.

I've thought about this

[(Anonymous)]

And I kind of have a problem with how Tony insisted on doing things, too. Dropping the snapped people back into a world five years later that had moved on without them is a lot.

[(Anonymous)]

lol this is such a bad take. I don't even know where to start.

[(Anonymous)]

If it's selfish to want to live a happy and peaceful life with your family away from the drama of the rest of the world, then I'm guilty of it.

Hell.. most people are selfish as fuck unless you are some kind of martyr saint who believes humankind is worth saving. If you say your daughters life has the same weight as the snapped pedo's, rapist, and conservatives then ok lol.

Most people suck. So no, I'm not sacrificing the few people I actually give a shit about to bring the population back (scum included). I care more about the environment than people anyways. Not sorry.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't watched either of the movies but from the complaining, it sounded like it wasn't just half of sentient life that got wiped, the directors clarified it was animals and plants too.

Can you imagine being a scientist carefully trying to reconstruct a population only for the purple dude to fuck it up in a random game of snap?

[(Anonymous)]

And yet if Cap had done this for poor, poor Bucky Wucky, you'd probably be applauding his loyalty and the moral dilemma it showed.

[(Anonymous)]

"Tony can get a new kid"? What kind of insensitive kid-murdering garbagecunt even suggests this?

If you're trolling though, not bad. I'll give it 6/10.

[(Anonymous)]

I assumed they needed an excuse to not just undo everything - that the Russos wanted a story where the snapped people came back but the whole thing still happened. If the Avengers can time travel to get the stones, they can time travel to ore-emptively stop Thanos. There needed to be someone guiding them away from that to make the story go where desired.

[(Anonymous)]

hey OP: Tony, Pepper, and Morgan represent all the people whose lives have changed irrevocably since the snap that the Avengers had no right to reverse and erase, just like Tony also represents ALL the victims of the Winter Soldier that Captain America so criminally denied justice to by hiding evidence of the WS's identity and crimes (and possible future crimes while he roamed free and triggerable).

[(Anonymous)]

1. According to UNICEF, approximately 130 million babies are born each year. We'll say birth rates dropped significantly among the 50% of people who were left after the Snap - perhaps only 30 million babies were being born each year for the five years after the Snap. (And presume the rest of the universe has largely continued to reproduce similarly, at 1/3 to 1/4 its previous rate.) So by the time the Avengers figured out how to undo the Snap, 150 million new people had been born on earth. Therefore, choosing to make it like the Snap never happened would be erasing 150 million earth lives. At that point you have to wonder if you're erasing more lives than you're saving. You can argue, "Yes, but people will never know those other lives existed. They won't have to grieve." But A) that isn't anyone's choice to make for another, and B) I doubt "You won't grieve" would be much of a comfort to any parent whose child you were going to erase. Bottom line: erasing all the lives born since the Snap, in order to save a vast but untold number of lives and make things easier on everyone, doesn't seem like a clear cut decision to me by any means. Personally, I lean towards the "just bring everybody back to the here and now" course of action as being the more ethically sound of the two.

2. We don't actually know if there was even a way to rewind time and prevent the Snap. Tony seemed worried the others might try to do something that would affect Morgan, and therefore people assume they could've chosen to just undo it all. But we don't actually know if it was remotely possible. It honestly seems like a pretty fundamentally different procedure to the one Tony devised.

3. To argue from a Doylist standpoint, the writers clearly ignore the extent of the damage this scenario would realistically entail. In reality, millions of people would die due to the circumstances they were returned into, and many millions more would die afterwards, due to lack of resources and general societal chaos. However, canon does not appear to adhere to this reality. Going purely off of the movies themselves, the post-Snap chaos appears to have been fairly manageable and not nearly as destructive as one would realistically expect.

4. I firmly believe that no reasonable, empathetic person would expect anyone to erase their own child, no matter what the trade-off was.

5. If you choose to lie to the person who could save everyone, get them to provide the means to save everyone, and then destroy their child with the intel they provided, that's on you. I don't know if that makes you a horrible person, or a hero, or both. I do know that if I did it, even if I believed to my core that it was right, I would never, ever forgive myself.

[(Anonymous)]

but let me guess, you thought it was totally fine that steve fucked off to the 1950s at the end.

tony's far from my favorite but i'm sick of people saying he's the only one who's selfish.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, erasing the hundreds of millions of people who would have been born after the Snap on Earth alone when there was another option would, in fact, make you a monster.

Morgan's the tangible example of life going on, both for the characters and the audience, but she's not the only kid who would have been born in those five years. Rewinding time would erase millions of people, nearly all of whom would never be born in the new timeline because the circumstances that led to their birth would never have occurred. It'd be one thing if the only way to bring the Snapped people back was to rewind time, but given that it was possible to restore everyone who'd been Snapped in the present day, that's clearly the more ethical choice.