fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #645 ]

[ SECRET POST #645 ]

⌈ Secret Post #645 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[X-Men]

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103.

[Katekyo Hitman Reborn!]

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104.

[The Famous Five; George]

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105.

[Death Note]

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106.

[Cirque du Freak]

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107.

[Nana]

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108.

[fanfiction, fanfiction.net]

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109.

[Star Trek]

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110.

[The Flash]

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111.

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112.

[Winona Ryder]

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113.

[Emperor's New Groove]

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114.

[Bokurano]

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115.

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116.

[Blackadder goes Fourth (sic)]

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117.

[Neon Genesis Evangelion/Power Puff Girls; Asuka/Princess]

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118.

[Katekyo Hitman Reborn!]

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119.

[Final Fantasy VII]

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120.

[Apollo/Dionysus; Nietzsche]

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121.

[Batman]

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122.

[Yaoi fangirlism]

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123.

[The Little Mermaid]

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124.

[Supernatural]

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125. [broken]

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126.

[Fanfiction]

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127.

[Chrono Cross/Chrono Trigger]

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128.

[Final Fantasy VII]

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129.

[Richard Dawkins]

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130.

[Blue's Clues]

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131.

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132.

[Fanfiction]

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133.

[Super Junior]

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134.

[XCKD, webcomic]

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135.

[Leverage/Final Fantasy VII: Before Crisis]

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136.

[Supernatural]

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137.

[Bandom]

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138.

[Twilight]

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139.

[Tenga Toppa Gurren Lagann]

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140.

[Harry Potter/Daniel Radcliffe]

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141.

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142.

[Charmed; Piper & Cole]

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143.

[The Office]

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144.

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145.

[Project Runway]

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146.

[Kuroshitsuji/Katekyo Hitman Reborn!]

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147.

[His Infernal Majesty]

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148.

[Jak & Daxter]

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149.

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150.

[House MD]

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151.

[Star Wars, Emperor Palpatine]

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152.

[Naruto, NaruSasuNaruwhatever]

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153.

[Wonderfalls]

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154.

[Samba de Amigo]

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155.

[Batman; Riddler/Scarecrow]

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156.

[Smallville]

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157.

[Pokemon]

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158.

[Fringe]

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159.

[Doctor Who]

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160.

[Code Geass]

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161. [repeat]

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162.

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163.

[Avatar: the Last Airbender]

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164.

[Code Geass]

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165.

[Fandom; Roleplaying]

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166.

[Veronica Mars]

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167.

[Bleach]

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168.

[Hellsing]

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169.

[Ace Attorney]

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170.

[Hugh Laurie]

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171.

[Shin Megami Tensei]

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172.

[20th Century Boys]

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173.

[House MD]

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174.

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175.

[Digimon]

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176.

[Power Rangers; Alpha]

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177.

[Fanfiction; Battle Royale]

Notes:

WHOA, somebody bought FS a year of paid time on 10/05 and I didn't notice until now -- belated thank you very much!

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 20 pages, 482 secrets from Secret Submission Post #093.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

101. Could you be more specific, please? There are so many ways of shipping things that I don't know what you mean when you say "relationships don't work like that."

I think shipping needs to be redefined so that we aren't always privilegeing the romantic relationship as the most legitimate or interesting one.

119. This secret makes me profoundly uncomfortable for some indiscernable reason.

122. Why do you feel like we're obligated to indulge your hatred of female characters and fetishization of male ones? And why does your happy oblivious funtimes take precedence over our serious business? Obviously you've found ways around it and can indulge as you please, so what the hell? I'm not shutting up just to avoid harshing your squee, especially when I think you're being stupid about it.

128. Can I ask why?

132. I think you're just uninformed. Does your elitist attitude somehow negate theirs?

134. Randall's world is the real world.

140. Hahahaha

152. Nothing's wrong with you. It just doesn't suit the other person's tastes.

168. If you liked it, that's all that counts. I haven't seen many people hating it violently, to be honest. I think Hellsing fandom is generally pretty chill about Hellsing itself. They prefer to direct their crazy outward.

for your response to 101, you have risen in my estimation. that was perfect.

and to your response to 122.

you lost me on 132. how is someone responding to the hate that is sometimes directed to fanfic writers 'uninformed'? or have I missed something?

then, you found me again on 152.

Thank you for the mostly favourable review!

I might be reading 132 wrong. I read it as if it was being said by someone who is as adamant about fanfiction being a very serious art as the person who says it's a pointless endeavour. I'm just tired of the fight over it. It's fanfiction. If people think it's pointless, that ultimately doesn't matter, because no one is going to stop their hobby on account of it being pointless.

ah. ok. I guess I didn't read the secret that way, so what you say makes sense.

I agree that I'm also tired over the pointless argument. LOL

I don't think it's a very serious art, I think it's a valid form of writing which can have as much literary and artistic worth as any other kind.

Well of course it's a valid form of writing. But all forms of writing are pretty much valid, aren't they?

I don't think fanfic is art and I would hate to compare a literary and artistic fanfic to a literary and artistic book for a couple of reasons. One is that you're comparing the exploratory to the wholly creative, so you wind up comparing apples and oranges.

I don't think the dividing line is so easy to see. The best fanfic is better than some published junk that uses public domain characters (there are a lot of these on Dracula, Jane Austen stories, and other out of copyright works). Then there are examples like The Wide Sargasso Sea that's a prize winning novel so it's not likely a lot of fanfic lives up to its standards, but when people say something can't be artistic and creative and original because it's using characters someone else created, they never have an answer for that except "that's public domain."

I'm sure it's true that there's plenty of fanfic that's better than published and award-winning books, but at the same time, I don't think that proves anything except that books are often tremendously overrated.

I don't think fanfic is art and I would hate to compare a literary and artistic fanfic to a literary and artistic book for a couple of reasons. One is that you're comparing the exploratory to the wholly creative, so you wind up comparing apples and oranges.

Fun fact: a not insignificant part of the literature written before the advent of copyright pretty much fit the criteria to qualify as a fanfic. The Divina Commedia? Self-insert crossover/RPF. The Aeneid? Completely derivative from Homer. Ariosto's Orlando Furioso? A sequel to Boiardo's unfinished Orlando Innamorato. Ovid's Metamorphoses? Based on mythology. Romeo and Juliet? Do you think they were originally Shakespeare's idea?

You can argue that comparing the exploratory to the creative is comparing apples to oranges, but we've already been lumping apples and oranges together for more than a millennium. We call it literature.

Now, what you find on fanfiction.net is obviously not art, but the process of crafting a story based on someone else's character's/stories is a creative process that's been around (and considered perfectly valid art) for millennia.

Unless you want to argue that Shakespeare and Dante were hacks, I guess.

Unless you want to argue that Shakespeare and Dante were hacks, I guess.

I might. Sounds like it would be a fun challenge.

Actually, I recognize that all of those bodies are derivative, but not that they meet the criteria for fanfiction. I think that derivative fiction and fanfiction are two different things, in the same way a fic is different from an allusion.

Fanfic is written in a different culture, with a different purpose, for a different audience, and from a different kind of medium. Shakespeare might have lifted his plotline and basic concept for Romeo and Juliet, but that's not what fanfics do. You still can't compare the two.

Re: 132 OP clarifying

wllw.livejournal.com - 2008-10-12 01:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 132 OP clarifying

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2008-10-12 01:56 (UTC) - Expand

About what do you think I am uninformed?

I'm curious, too.

No, I misworded that... The first sentence was general you, the second sentence was directed at you. So, it should read:

"If you look down on fanfic writers, I think you're just uninformed." followed by "Does your elitist attitude somehow negate theirs?" directed at you. Though that probably wasn't very fair and hinges on my own assumptions, but it does brush me the wrong way that you'd call someone who doesn't like fanfic stupid, snobbish, and unimaginative. I don't think any of those things are true.

Oh, right. I didn't mean people who just don't like it, I meant the ones who look down on it, the people who make secrets about how fanfic is a giant waste of time and only for people who can't think of their own characters. I think that's snobbish, and I think it's stupid and unimaginative because it ignores the many ways fanfic can potentially transform stories and characters into something with just as much meaning as an original story. I think it's ignorant about how literature has worked through history too.

I think it's pointless. It's a hobby. I personally think stamp collecting is pretty stupid, but why waste my time getting into an argument about it?

I agree that fanfic can be imaginative, transformative, insightful and meaningful, but I also think that mostly it isn't and that it's completely fair of people to disregard that potential in their dismissal of fanfic. If someone doesn't understand or recognize that potential, it's their problem and not mine. I don't think it makes them a lesser person, just an ignorant or uninformed one.

I personally think stamp collecting is pretty stupid, but why waste my time getting into an argument about it?</i. every comment is made of more and more awesome. ^^; if I weren't so chicken, I'd friend you.

-_-; pretend that was html'd right.

Re: 132 OP

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2008-10-12 00:11 (UTC) - Expand

You win. It can be those things, but largest amount is not. Like a good 99%.

Yeah. I don't know what the point is in having a conversation about the exception to the rule.

Ithink most fandom outcasts are self-declared because they think there's something wrong with it myself. Just like the "but I identify with male characters!" and "girls were mean to me in 9th grade!" and "but I wanted to be a boy!" explanations for disliking female characters tend to be hollow shields to hide behind because if you disagree then, you're attacking the person.

Same thing, different tune.

I didn't really understand that. Is it along the lines of what you said in your own comment to the secret?

Err...thinking there's something wrong with you, or that you can't actually defend your position, so hiding it or hiding it behind something, pretty much.

I agree, then! And I think your response is insightful.

I've lost track of how many times, when a hole in reasoning was pointed out, someone whipped out "But I wanted to be a boy when I was little!" "Put I identify with them!" "But girls were mean in ninth grade!" clearly expecting a shining beacon of understanding and agreement to understand because yes, that totally means that these two guys together and your interpretation of the this character as a doormat who should be cheated one IS THE WAY TO GO!!! Those and the whole "I can't admit I always do this" thing tend to scream "I think there's something wrong with me/my reasoning, but I'll try to foist it off on you."

ETA: I just think that, if you have an opinion strong enough to state it in any form, then stand by it and defend it on its own merits, don't hide behind something because you don't think you can back it up.

Edited 2008-10-12 00:55 (UTC)

I'm jumping in here, but thank you thank you THANK YOU for bringing that up. I hate it when fans use things like gender identity to mask their own prejudice and hate.

I'm speaking as an intergendered person, but even if I weren't, identifying with another gender doesn't somehow prevent you from treating other genders, fictional or not, with respect. It's sick that people feel like they need to use something like that to justify their rotten attitudes.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #645 ]

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