[ SECRET POST #4655 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4655 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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08. [SPOILERS for Chicago Med]

[Conner/Ava]







Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #666.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

There are a lot of reboots in Hollywood today, and that's frustrating on its own terms. But I think there's two trends here that you're confusing - there's lots of remakes (bad) and there's more diverse characters (good). I don't see how making a reboot diverse makes it worse or less annoying, and I don't see how reboots being diverse makes it harder for good, new, diverse stories and good, new, diverse characters to exist. It's not like the demand for diversity is forcing Hollywood to remake things.

And I also don't understand what makes it "slapped on diversity crap". There's lots of different ways to represent diversity and lots of different ways to be diverse, to be a person of color or a minority. Not every kind of representation has to line up with what you want it to be.

I just don't get where this aggravation against certain kinds of diversity comes from. I guess most of it is that people don't like some movies, and that's fine, you don't have to like everything, but just say you don't like it, don't turn it into this whole screed where the movies you don't like are Doing Diversity Wrong.

[tabaqui]

Think of the one-minute scene were a person in Steve's 'therapy' group in Endgame talks about a past SO and how they just went on a date and it was with a guy. And Steve is all 'so glad you're getting out there'.

The directors acted like they'd had STEVE come out as gay and weren't they just awesome and omg, look, first canon gay character in a Superhero movie!!!!11!!!!

That is 'slapped on diversity crap' at it's finest.

[(Anonymous)]

Look, I agree that the way that the directors and studio PR machines talk about that stuff is dumb as hell. But I don't think the scenes themselves are even that bad, and I have no idea what harm it's doing, let alone how it's preventing the creation of other diverse media.

[tabaqui]

The 'harm' is that that nothing scene can be used to check off the 'diversity square: LGBTQ character!', and then they go on with every major and minor and side character being cis and generally male and 99 times out of 100 white. It gives them 'cred' without actually doing a fucking thing.

And it keeps actual LGBTQ or people of color characters from being the main or even 'side' characters, because hey! we checked that box! We're done!

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. It requires exactly zero effort and zero risk on the part of the creators, unlike, say, a show like Voltron where not only did they make one of the main characters explicitly textually gay, they had him get married to a man in the finale. THAT is actual, genuine diversity. Like, hell, I didn't even like Voltron that much and I think it had some major storytelling issues, but I sure as hell respect that they had the guts to go there despite knowing the outcry it would cause.

[tabaqui]

EXACTLY.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that's better diversity

I don't see how it's an either-or thing

[(Anonymous)]

Ehhh... while I get your point, Shiro had been entirely sidelined from the main plot by that point and his marriage was clearly meant as a checkbox to claim diversity. He went from the leader of Voltron, surrounded by his friends, to completely isolated, marrying a character who appeared approximately twice and who had no canonical personality. The relationship had no build-up or weight to it because it was an afterthought, because the creators wanted to kill Shiro off seasons before and resented that the powers that be hadn't let them.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that's how it works at all. I don't think they want representation and they think that having one random side character is enough to check off the diversity box - if nothing else, the fact that this is very, very clearly and obviously not how it works with other types of diversity strongly implies that.

I think they just aren't actually willing to do the work of having real gay characters, and so they do this low-calorie, store-brand bullshit instead and then trumpet it around like it's a triumph hoping that will convince people they care.

[tabaqui]

I can't tell who you're replying to.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm replying to you. You said that tiny diversity scenes like the one with Captain America are bad because it keeps filmmakers from having more diversity because they've already checked off the box. and I don't think that's how it works, for the reasons I've already outlined. If they actually wanted to have LGBTQ main characters, they'd have LGBTQ main characters. It's a side issue.

[tabaqui]

.........you're saying what i'm saying. They don't give a damn about diversity, so having ten seconds of some random guy lets them check that box so they can crow about it in public and not have to deal with negative press, etc. It gives them the excuse of having 'done it' so they don't actually *have to*.

[(Anonymous)]

my point is they wouldn't actually do it otherwise. if they were willing to do it, they would just do it. so we can conclude that they're not willing to actually do it.

so it's unlikely that the particular scenes that you're objective to - as annoying as the way they're used for PR stuff is - actually have the effect of stopping Marvel or Disney or whoever from including better LGBTQ representation in their blockbusters. in the same way that the racial-swapped reboots OP was talking about originally probably don't take away from original content.

[tabaqui]

And *my* point is, they are willing to do it only to get brownie points and some publicity, but not to actually put in the work and do it *right*.

I think it does, though, since - once again - they have checked that square, they can pat themselves on the back and say they did it and go merrily on not really doing jack shite.

[osidiano]

Best example of slapped on diversity from Marvel remains Spider-Man: Homecoming, IMO. "Look at how diverse we are! A fat nerdy Asian sidekick who is good with computers and bad with girls, and a spunky woke black girl who in no way affects the plot!!!!1"

Having a minority character who is literally just the regular ol' stereotype isn't progressive. It's just as lazy as casting a white guy. :\

[tabaqui]

Meh, yes. Gee, never saw *that* coming!

[(Anonymous)]

Look, I can't speak for everyone, but for me when people do stuff like this, it feels like they don't actually care.

Like for instance: Marvel Comics with black girl Iron Man and woman Thor. I don't want to read comics about them. I want to read comics about Storm and Rogue. In fact, the reason I got into Marvel when I was a kid was because they had all these amazing multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-species characters. Sure, they were mostly supporting characters and white guys were leading the packs, but there was something for everyone. Everyone had unique super powers and it felt like everyone belonged in that universe. There was a place for everyone in that universe, no matter how much of a "freak" they were.

So when people start clamoring that they want more diversity in their media, Marvel hears their cries. They sure do. Instead of bringing their awesome supporting minority characters to the front, or hell, even taking the time to make new minority characters with unique powers, what does Marvel do? They just genderflip and racebend a few of their white guys. Because they care very deeply about representation and all that. Yep, they sure do. They're woke. Oh yeah, woke af.

I can't stand this shit. It's lazy and it's insulting.

[(Anonymous)]

Yep. It's like they just want to feel good about their faux progressiveness without really doing much so they take well loved roles and just half-heartedly shoehorn ~diverse~ characters into those roles instead of taking a gamble and actually making an effort by creating new diverse characters that can stand their own.
And then, when they have alienated both the established fans (by warping well loved superheroes into something else) and people wanting representation (because they can't be bothered to actually make new interesting characters and just treat minorities as lacking understudies for the "proper" versions of heroes) alike, they can just retire the failed attempt at making an established hero ~diverse~ and go back to the status quo by saying "see, we tried, diversity just doesn't sell".

[(Anonymous)]

The writing on that show is bad overall though.