[ SECRET POST #4738 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4738 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Full of spoilers tomorrow.

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 17 secrets from Secret Submission Post #678.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[erinptah]

Mmm, mixed feelings.

I don't like when fans shout "Not good enough!" over representation that the creators obviously cared about, and worked hard to get in, and probably would've done more with if they didn't have management holding them back. (see: Shiro on Voltron, certain characters in the new She-Ra)

I'm fine with fans shouting "Not good enough!" when the creators throw in some blink-and-you'll-miss-it representation, or use an interview to mention some not-in-the-text-at-all representation, and then go around patting themselves on the back about how wonderful and diverse their writing is. (see: Lando in Star Wars, LeFou in the live-action Beauty and the Beast, that nameless extra in Avengers: Endgame)

And Elsa is a weird choice for the image because she isn't any kind of representation at all. "Not actively giving her a male love interest" isn't even a scrap of queer content, it's just a blank slate. I'm 100% here for fans who fill that slate with queer interpretations, but it's coming from us, not the canon creators!

[nightscale]

+1

Intent matters, and tbh I can normally tell when it's the case of a creator caring but having to adhere to studio restrictions(She-Ra, Steven Universe, Adventure Time), because those characters are usually still treated with love and care by the creators.

(I only mildly disagree on Shiro, because he wasn't visibly LGBT in any way before the very end montage of the show, and he was originally meant to die at the end of s2 so if plans had gone accordingly their only LGBT rep would have been removed from the show early-on).

LGBT rep that's tossed in as an afterthought is lazy and annoying, but it's the attitude behind it that irks me more, that a scene that can be edited-out is 'groundbreaking' and something these media companies will pat themselves on the back for. Like okay, you threw in a little something, I can appreciate the gesture to some extent, but you're not getting praise from me when it's so minimal sometimes I 100% miss it.

You can do better than that.

[(Anonymous)]

Re: Shiro, the creators said in an interview that if they'd been allowed to kill him off for real, they would have picked another main character to be LGBT.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean that kinda just makes it sound MORE like an afterthought...

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, I'm not a fan of the the Voltron showrunners as actual writers, but it does show that they were determined to have some representation right from the start. If it wasn't going to be one character, they wanted it to be another. That's more than a lot of other producers do.

[(Anonymous)]

But to me, "representation from the start" and "well if not this character I guess we can make another the gay one" aren't the same thing at all. Like, did they plan to have a gay character or not? Did that go into that character's creation?

[(Anonymous)]

They said they wanted to make a character gay from the start.

[(Anonymous)]

As a fill-in-the-blank or a specific character? There's a difference.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not getting why it matters. The showrunners wanted diversity of race and sexuality on the show. Allura, Shiro, Lance and Hunk being not white wasn't a big deal because they lived in a post-racism society. It was meant to be the same for whichever character they picked to be gay, because Earth at that point in the show was past homophobic prejudices. Whoever the gay character was, their sexuality would inform their characters just as much as their race or their gender, which is, well, practically not at all. That an important character would be visibly gay was what the show was aiming for. (And almost didn't get, even with how hard they were fighting for it.)

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, don't half-ass it and then go on the publicity circuit hyping what you did. I also find it mighty curious that Disney has the tightest control of what talent is allowed to say in the business, but everyone is talking up fanon ships and headcanon sexualities.

(Although I feel I'm missing something with She-Ra. One explicitly gay couple, one explicitly lesbian couple, and multiple close-up shots showing that Adora has a thing for women with big muscles.)

[(Anonymous)]

Two explicitly gay/lesbian couples aren't enough for you? And in a show that also has exactly one explicitly straight couple and no more? Yeesh.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm questioning what the previous anon found lacking in She Ra.

[erinptah]

As of the first season, they only had the explicitly-lesbian couple, and it was only explicit in a brief scene with a "honey" and a kiss on the cheek. So that was definitely a case of management holding them back! With the refreshing twist that the restraint let up in later seasons -- and sure enough, the creators did do more with it.

There's also enough subtext about the idea of Bow being a trans guy that I will not be surprised if, a few years from now, somebody says "yeah, we intended that to be canon, and would've made it explicit if the bosses had let us."

[erinptah]

OH AND: Scorpia! With her regular thing of "Catra is so amazing and gorgeous and wonderful and someday she will realize that she's my soulmate and we are Best Friends!"

The writers gesture so hard in the direction of that being an unambiguous f/f crush, and then keep coming back to calling it Friendship. Exactly like you would if gay content was the goal, and then management came in and said "side characters are one thing, but we can't let you make a recurring character explicitly queer," so you appease them by pasting in a few references to "friends" while changing nothing else. Just Fright Zone gals being Fright Zone pals.

(...And then did the same thing with Sea Hawk's feelings for Mermista, so at least it's equal-opportunity romance-obscuring.)

[(Anonymous)]

I think that's the thing with She-Ra. Since it's supposed to be for young kids, I have a feeling management keeps coming down on the creators to keep things squeaky clean by requiring all romance to carry on in subtleties even though I keep doing air quotes in my head when characters say "Friend", but their actions make it explicit that yup, there's romantic interest there.

And I admit to enjoying see what they can sneak past the censors. Like Catra sleeping at Adora's feet in season one. Or giving Entrapta freaking shoujo sparkles in season three. Which a weeb like me would understand in a snap but random Joe Schmo on the street wouldn't think much of.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't find Netossa/Spinerella, Bow's Two Dads, Double Trouble, or Adora's lady crushes to be at all subtle.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, Scorpia is just fine. Not everyone comes into young adulthood with the emotional intelligence to clearly understand or articulate our romantic desires, and her multi-season character growth in this direction has been one of the joys of the show. Also it's almost entirely unreciprocated anyway, and "Catra is a shitty friend" is probably THE biggest conflict of the show, affecting Scorpia, Adora, Entrapta, Hordak, and even Lonnie.