fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4746 ]

[ SECRET POST #4746 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4746 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Devil May Cry]

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05. [SPOILERS for Rise of the Skywalker]

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06. [SPOILERS for Rise of the Skywalker]

[Star Wars, Berserk]

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07. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #679.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Which loved ones do you think should be hated?

I always have a soft spot for kid characters.

Sam on The Walking Dead didn't deserve the hate or ending he got. He was a traumatized child ignored by his shitty mom. He was mentally tortured by an adult he should have been able to trust.

Ollie on Game of Thrones didn't deserve the hate he gets. He was manipulated by other adults and the man he trusted the most (Jon Snow) allowed the people who killed (and ate) his family into their home.

Dakota Fanning in World of the Wars acted just like a little kid would in that situation. It was incredibly realistic.

100% agreed on Ollie. I didn't super care for him or anything but I was really weirded out by the hate he got? I'm someone who doesn't want kid characters anywhere but I really felt for him. He killed the woman who helped kill his parents and his entire village and he gets hate for that?

I will never understand why Bill Potts is hated by a good number of Who fans. Same goes for Martha Jones, Donna Noble, and actually really any Who companion. I don't hate any of them. Even the one I have issues with I more have issues with her continually coming back, and I like her character and her first season a lot.

Rey. Like, really? Sorry she's female and awesome and male Star Wars fans can't handle it.

And the comparisons of Kylo to Vader as if the point was making another Vader. Of course he's weaker than Vader. He was supposed to be. That doesn't make him a bad character. Don't like him, fine. But don't say he's bad because he's not Vader. That's just stupid. The whole point of him is that he fails at being what he wants to be, has these competing voices in his head, has no control over anything and lashes out because he can't even control himself.

Vader was able to us his self-loathing to ground himself because his hatred fed his power and his control. Kylo doesn't have that because he's not as powerful or as trained and while he certainly has self-loathing, that self-loathing only weakens him, it doesn't strengthen him the way Vader's did for him.

Honestly, people are always telling book authors to show, don't tell. But they expect the opposite from movie and tv. They want to be told everything in dialogue. That's not always how it works. Characterization can be found in dialogue but also in plot, in acting (and Adam certainly gave his all, IMHO), and in simply the way the director has the scene filmed.

It may take multiple views to get all the subtleties of a character. Honestly that's a big reason I love going into something spoiled. The overarching plot isn't as important to me as character is. I'm interested in who characters are, and that is something you you can't just learn from the plot.

What did Martha ever do that deserved hate? I'm curious since I love her and I never got any other impression other than 'she wasn't Rose'.

She wasn't Rose was mostly it, though I got a feeling that there was some racism involved in some of it.

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 01:11 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 01:31 (UTC) - Expand

People hate Bill??

Some very vocal fans, yup. She's my favorite, personally.

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

fucktheg0ds - 2020-01-04 01:14 (UTC) - Expand

Personally, I don't like her because she was fairly stupid with her behaviour. She got annoying with a lot of what she did and how she acted. I generally have a low tolerance for those types of characters, so I am biased in that way.
I stopped watching that season because both her and the old man doctor really annoyed me. She's not the worst, but I generally have no interest in watching an episode if I see her, or the old man doctor in it.

First I've heard of it! I loved Bill and kind of wanted to cluck over her like a mother hen.

How can you hate Bill?! (Or Martha! Or Donna!)

I totally understand there being times when you may dislike a character (even the Doctor), as I am not a huge fan of later seasons with Rose because her and the Doctor just seemed to bring out the worst in each other when she was with Ten, but I don't hate her.

Clara seemed to get a lot of weird hate too, from what I recall, but I think that was because the writing tried to make her out to be this... I don't know the words I want, because I dislike the term Mary Sue, but basically they attempted all these weird subplots that they tried to tie together to make her character seem uber special which rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. River IMO seemed to suffer from that too, and I love River as well.

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 02:11 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 02:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 10:14 (UTC) - Expand

Honestly that's a big reason I love going into something spoiled. The overarching plot isn't as important to me as character is. I'm interested in who characters are, and that is something you you can't just learn from the plot.

Agree with every word of this :). Give me characters I can care about and enjoy watching and all that good stuff, and I'll stay on no matter how crazy the plot gets :p.

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

philstar22 - 2020-01-04 04:08 (UTC) - Expand

I think that's a pretty fair read of Kylo.

But then... all that stuff with "Snooks was force-whispering to him as a child" sounded so much like early onset paranoid schizophrenia - untreated paranoid schizophrenia - that I have a hard time considering him entirely responsible for his life choices. Mental illness bites.

I only watched the first three seasons of Grey’s Anatomy, but I liked Meredith and have never felt she deserved the hate she got, even that early in the show.

I only watched the first two seasons of Orange Is The New Black but I (for the most part) liked Piper, and don’t feel she deserved the hate she got.

Also, which I can see why people criticize Lorelei and Rory Gilmore for how they were in the new season, throughout most of the show’s original run I think they were great characters, and don’t deserve it at all.

There’s probably a few other white female main characters from well-off backgrounds I could add to this list. I am white, but I’m not straight and I grew up poor af, and personally I still find these characters relatable, and often admirable, and I sympathize with their personal conflicts. Their privilege in certain areas doesn’t make the pain they feel or the difficulties they face any less legitimate or impactful to me.

About the Gilmores... I loved the first few seasons of the show, so I liked the characters. By season 6, though, ASP had started to make Lorelai and Rory kinda unlikable to me. (I mean Lorelai in the season 6 finale? Ugh.) Season 7 kinda redeemed Lorelai for me by the end, even if I still didn't love Rory as much, so I decided to try watching the new episodes, and no. I thought season 6 was bad? That was so much worse. And it kinda tainted the whole show/characters for me now. I used to rewatch early season episodes, but I've not done that since I tried watching the new show. And it makes me sad.

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 08:52 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

meredith44 - 2020-01-04 13:59 (UTC) - Expand

My feelings for Meredith were always complicated. She was never my favorite, but that was really because I related to her too much. I didn't hate her, she was just too much me on the screen for her to be a top character the way Callie and Christina were. Those two were what I wanted to be. But Meredith was also smart and skilled and had a lot of really great moments and some of the hate she got was plainly sexist.

Iris West and nu!Trek Uhura.

Part of the hate is fueled by both characters 'getting in the way' of a ship some fans would rather see happen, another part of it is simple racism: both are black women paired with a white-man and my god we can't have that(the actual actress for Iris has, and still to this day I believe, gets a shit-ton of racist hate spewed at her on twitter). The level of hate I would see them both get was so insane that even blocking the assholes did nothing because every day there'd be 20+ new posts complaining about them. So I gave up trying to even lurk in either of those fandoms, it was so fucking tiring.

Edited 2020-01-04 01:50 (UTC)

Sera, and Vivienne from Dragon Age: Inquisition. Cullen too for that matter.
With Sera she's basically harmless and really just blunt. It still makes me mad that she's the only party member who you can kick out. Like people like Iron Bull who is literally in your employ, and says you don't have to keep going with him when you first recruit him can't be kicked out, and he's way less ignorable.
Viv is just great. People get way too defensive about fictional oppression imo, and lay it on her because she supports mage's studying in the circles. It's terrible.
Cullen's been through a lot, and while he's had his ups and downs, some people just see him as irredeemable when he actual has redeemed himself.

I don't think the boyfriend - or any of the other students who got horribly murdered - in 'Midsommar' deserved it. A) No-one deserves to be murdered by a village of creepy white cultists (and fuck yes I think them being white is relevant), B) not being up to emotionally supporting someone who's just lost a close relative is not a capital offence, C) he was drugged to the eyeballs when he had sex with that other woman so I wouldn't actually call that 'cheating' so much as 'being raped while drugged to the eyeballs'.
But oooh, everyone's just so fucking happy for the protagonist! Look, it's so nice that the blue-eyed blonde gets to spend the rest of her life with other blue-eyed blondes! Yay! This isn't terrible at all! :D

I agree with you, but it's a horror film. Bad outcomes for people who don't deserve it comes with the territory.

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 05:45 (UTC) - Expand

But how do you feel about the Blue Eyes White Dragon then?

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 11:51 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 18:01 (UTC) - Expand

honestly the response i've seen online to this movie is... bizarre. ppl are taking it as some kind of 'female empowerment' thing while COMPLETELY ignoring that the protag has been indoctrinated and fully assimilated into the system by the end. she's lost.

the movie GETS what it's showing you, but a majority of the audience doesn't seem to, the horror is what happens to HER at the end guys, it's not happy, she's not free. she's FUCKED. but uh sure, girl power??

I say it all the time, but Bela on Supernatural. I still have a hard time understanding why she was hated so vitriolicly. She was hated even before she had her first appearance, even. She was far from perfect, but I love her.

Honestly hers is an archetype I'm personally rarely fond of regardless of gender. I'm one of the I guess few Star Wars fans who doesn't particularly like bounty hunters or smugglers, for example. I'm more into heroes and villains than anti-heroes. Anti-heroes I like are ones that are closer to the heroic end of the scale, not just straight-up self centered people who just occasionally do the right thing.

That being said, she was a well-written character who got some unfounded flack and downright sexist hate from parts of the fandom. And her ending was badly written and Dean should have found out her actual history. She wasn't my cup of tea personally, but she was a good character.

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

meredith44 - 2020-01-04 04:15 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

philstar22 - 2020-01-04 04:18 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

(Anonymous) - 2020-01-04 07:57 (UTC) - Expand

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

meredith44 - 2020-01-04 14:17 (UTC) - Expand

From my point of view, the problem with Bela was that she broke the implicit rules and framework of the show. Particularly, it felt like the specific ways that she beat Sam and (especially) Dean in various things - the specific ways in which she was better than them - were not sufficiently justified in narrative terms. When Bela was on, she basically asserted narrative domination over the show.

Re: What hated TV/Movie/Game characters do you think didn't deserve it?

meredith44 - 2020-01-04 14:22 (UTC) - Expand

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