[ SECRET POST #4759 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4759 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[The Mandalorian]



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02. https://i.imgur.com/jciwSVo.png
[linked for nudity at OP's request]


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03.


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04.


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05.


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06. [minor spoilers for The Witcher]


















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #681.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Seems nasty and dismissive of trans kids and identities to me, but also not trolly?

Honestly, I think if I were a teen today, I probably would've believed I was genderqueer/nonbinary or whatever term because I was "not like other girls". Before you jump at me, I'm blaming myself - I think it would've been me who would've taken on that term too quickly because being a "woman" isn't an active part of my identity and all my hobbies and fashion tastes were stereotypically masculine, which was often a source of frustration in my childhood. Of course, there would've been nothing wrong with me exploring what gender meant to be, but I have no doubt I would've gotten bored with that eventually and moved on.

I think my point is that it's not uncommon to feel uncomfortable with gender roles and when you're going through puberty, to feel unsure about your genitals. It doesn't mean you're trans or genderqueer or whatever, but there's also nothing wrong with experimenting as a teen and ultimately you gotta do you the right way. But fandom can be a brutal and toxic place, and that's just as true today as it ever was, so while I think for some teens it can be very liberating - for me, it became so much easier to accept that my sexual orientation was queer - it's also the case that it can be brutal and confusing, so I'm willing to entertain OP's hypothetical scenario of fandom only making her confusion and discomfort with her body worse.

[(Anonymous)]

And also - if you're figuring out who you are, it's OK for that to be a complicated journey

A kid thinking they're genderqueer and then working out that the identity doesn't work for them is hardly a tragedy

[(Anonymous)]

Totally! There's nothing wrong with it, and congrats to that kid to trying to find the best way to be in tune with their mind and body. At the end of the day, if a kid thinks they're genderqueer - or hell, even trans - and then later doesn't, it's really no one's business except theirs.

I agree that these kinds of statistics can be weaponized against actual trans people - like, "look at so-and-so or these numbers that say you'll change your mind!" and thus resulting in trans identities being dismissed. I wish we could move past that, and just realize it's fine no matter what, because the only one it affects is the individual in question and the best thing you can do is be there for them and respect their decision to figure things out.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's kind of a big deal if you realize you want to identify as a woman, your biological sex, and you've had a double masectomy and have permanent beard stubble. Hormones and surgery are largely not reversible.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, that is a big deal. But it's your big deal, and shouldn't be used to harm others. I don't presently have any reason to believe that the mass, mass majority of teens exploring their gender identity go through with hormones and surgery. That is between them and their doctors, at any rate.

For the record, I also don't think it's appropriate either way for fandom or anyone else (who isn't a health professional) to advise you what you should/should not do with your body. The scenario of fandom telling a confused teen that yes, they should take hormones and have surgery because they feel uncomfortable with their body is HUGELY problematic and dangerous. Relating a personal story to a confused friend about how hormone therapy has worked for you is another matter, but beyond letting teens know they aren't alone and they have options and support no matter what, no one should be pushing them either way.

But let me emphasize again that it would have been a lot of work for you to start hormone therapy or surgery. You really would have had to seriously pursue those decisions. This couldn't have happened on a whim because of fandom. This would've really been a you thing - it's not like trying meth one night on an impulse.

It may be the case that there are people out there who felt they were trans and changed their minds. Some of them may have gone through with hormones or surgery. It isn't impossible. And that must be a horrible feeling for them, and I wish them all the best in whatever they need in the future to feel whole again.

But the alternative of discouraging young people from gender therapies or dismissing their trans identities is so, so much worse. If we do that, we're going to have more dead kids on our hands.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course not. But hormones and surgery require a pretty significant referral process, a long wait list, a dedicated long-term care team, long drives to a handful of care providers, and a fuckton of cash unless you win the insurance lottery.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

As a cis woman with beard stubble (and chest hair like goddamn Gaston) razors and waxing exist. And while it’s been a long damn time since I was flat chested, I know there are better options these days than the oranges pre-pubescent me shoved down my tops. And while surgery can be tricky, of fucking course hormones are reversible. Also gaining access to surgery and hormones in the first place is hard.

[(Anonymous)]

Well then, it's a good thing the process is careful to filter out the people who aren't genuinely suffering from dysphoria by itself then, isn't it? The way people like to talk, you'd think you walk in and immediately get given these things. It's not like that at all. It takes years, and countless hoops to jump through.

[(Anonymous)]

The Tavistock has lost 35 psychologists in 3 years, not sure the process is that careful.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure what they have to do with it?

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who also experienced gender dysphoria as a teen but ultimately concluded I was cis (and queer), I agree. I think fandom in general needs to stop being so obsessed with slapping labels on everyone and everything because most kids DO go through a period of self-discovery where they're figuring out who and what they are and pushing them to identify one way or the other doesn't help with that at all. It's okay to experiment. It's okay to not know. It's okay to think you're one thing and then realize that actually, you aren't. And also, it's okay to not want to label yourself at all or feel that none of the existing labels really fit you.

The whole process of figuring that stuff out is hard enough on its own without other people putting pressure on you from the outside.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, I think if I were a teen today, I probably would've believed I was genderqueer/nonbinary or whatever term because I was "not like other girls".

This is my story, too. I spent most of my teens rejecting anything that could be interpreted as "girly" because I loathed all the implications that came along with it. Fifteen years later, it's absurd to think of myself as anything else than a woman, but I remember the way I was feeling about the topic back then. It had nothing to do with my gender identity and everything to do with gender roles. I have no wish to erase nonbinary people and their identities, but thanks to vivid memories of being sixteen and angry at everything, I'll confess that I silently doubt that most people putting "she/they" pronouns in their profiles are REALLY all that enby.

[(Anonymous)]

"It had nothing to do with my gender identity and everything to do with gender roles."

Yes, I felt this too. When I (cis woman) learned what being trans meant as a teen (being NB wasn't on my radar yet), I wondered if that was me because I didn't particularly feel like a woman, whatever that meant. I still don't really know what it means to feel "like a woman" but I feel fine living in my body, so I guess it's just that. What I actually wanted to reject were gender roles and expectations.

Talking about pronouns and identities in profiles, I could probably also call myself demisexual or grey ace, and it would be true by definition. But I don't identify with those things at all. I just don't want to have sex with most people, for a lot of reasons, and that's cool because I don't have to. It has practically no bearing on my life.

I believe that labels are important, but also that everyone exists on multiple spectra and whatever combination or permutation works for you is great.

All this is to say, I agree with your comment.