fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #677 ]

[ SECRET POST #677 ]

⌈ Secret Post #677 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Power Rangers, Tommy/Kimberly]

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103.

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104.

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105.

[Jon Stewart]

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106.

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107.

[One Piece]

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108.

[Silent Hill]

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109.

[David Tennant/Catherine Tate]

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110.

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111.

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112.

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113.

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114.

[Axis Powers Hetalia, Stephen Colbert]

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115.

[Gossip Girl]

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116.

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117.

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118.

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119.

[Ultimate Girls]

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120.

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121.

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122.

[Eyeshield 21]

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123.

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124.

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125.

[Avatar]

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126.

[The Worst Witch Series]

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127.

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128.

[Dead Like Me]

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129.

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130.

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131.

[Phoenix Wright]

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132.

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133.

[House, M.D.; The Craft; The Mentalist; Lost; Harriet the Spy; Ice Princess; Blue Crush; Alias; Heroes; Desperate Housewives; How I Met Your Mother]

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134.

[Merlin]

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135.

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136.

[House MD]

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137.

[Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World]

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138.

[Pineapple Express]

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139.

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140.

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141.

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142.

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143.

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144.

[Streetcar Named Desire]

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145.

[Ben Ten/Sailor Moon]

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146.

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147.

[Tripod]

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148.

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149.

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150.

Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 122 secrets from Secret Submission Post #097.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4- not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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122. As long as you love Eyeshield 21 I like you. Taki and Kuroki are awesome. And shipping crack pairings is fun! I ship Unsui/Karin and I don't think they've ever met. Total crack!

124. I am not a yaoi fan, but I do very much hate pandering to yaoi fangirls. I know it's all about selling goods and making more money off a lucrative demographic, but it's still pandering. It bothers me the most when it shows up in supposedly shonen manga (Reborn! and Tsubasa/xxxholic I'm looking at you).

150. God am I sick of these "I lose respect..." secrets. Nobody cares if they have your damn respect. And I think most people get the message that if (god forbid!) they happen to like Twilight for any reason they must keep it a deep dark secret lest they be judged and ridiculed. It's one of the fandom commandments:

-thou shalt not express anything less than hate towards Twilight.
-thou shalt never speak a word of criticism about any sort of incest, rape, mpreg or other fetish anyone might have.

Eh, I'm too lazy to think of more right now. But seriously, there have already been eight-billion (estimate) secrets about losing respect for anyone who likes Twilight. And I remember one time someone wrote a secret that they disliked the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" and there were mass outcries of blasphemy. People can like and hate whatever the Hell they want for whatever reason they want. Get over it, and stop using it as a gauge for who is worthy of your respect (which the secret makers seem to think is so desirable and valuable).

Edited 2008-11-12 23:11 (UTC)

Fucking signed. God fucking forbid anyone can just like or dislike something without being torn apart for it.

And where do these secret makers get off thinking that they're so important that anyone else gives a damn whether or not they have their respect? Seriously?

124. It's weird, because some of the stuff responding to this seems to be talking about actual yaoi series...which I can't understand as pandering. Also subtext is subtext, you can find it all over the place and not just in anime/manga...I don't know

150. Fucking. Signed.

124: I've never really considered that Reborn actually panders at all. Not unless you're looking for it. The main characters are all guys (with some female side-characters), all the actual love interests are heterosexual (with the not-even-arguable sparkle-obsession Gokudera has for Tsuna, and Lussuria's NECROFAGGOTRY aside), and there aren't any longing glances or standing-too-close or suggestive dialogues in the series. Fandom is just hyperactive. XD

Also... Tsubasa/xxxholic is Clamp and should never be counted. Never. Ever. Ever. It may be "shounen" sort of, but... it's Clamp. XD This is the group that flirts with canon!gay constantly (even HAS canon gay -- in Card Captor Sakura of all things, Tomoyo being in love with Sakura and Tomoyo's mother having been in love with Sakura's mother, and though I've seen arguments that it's apparently "NOT CANON!" unless there is a kiss or "I love you" is said straight out, there is no argument that the Touya/Yukito in that series is definitely canon -- and the two lesbians in RG Veda). Clamp is just a special snowflake on its own when it comes to gay. XD

150: THIS, THOUGH, FOREVER.

124. For the record, I actually am a fan of Reborn! and xxxHolic/Tsubasa, but I stay far away from the fandom. With Reborn! I guess I see it more in the moe cliches the cute male cast seem to fit into so neatly. As far as the CLAMP titles go, I wasn't sure whether to cite them as examples, but in the end decided that being CLAMP isn't an excuse. I still think of xxHolic and Tsubasa as shojo manga and feel they would be better suited for a magazine like Asuka. CCS and RG VEda are shojo. Sometimes shonen manga just seems like the creator thought- "how much can I appeal to fujoshi without alienating the male readers?" Like I said, it's a way to maximize the audience and make more money. But I can taste the secret flavor. Sorry about the War & Peace response. I'm a bit longwinded.

Edited 2008-11-13 03:15 (UTC)

Why is yaoi subtext pandering, though? It could just be that the creator really wanted to imply certain same-sex pairing, you know. Maybe it wasn't allowed to be made canon by the publisher, and the subtext was all that could be done?

Except in a very few instances, I think that is mostly just wishful thinking on the part of fujoshi who want to squee that their OTP is OMGSOCANON! But the fact that it is showing up more and more, particularly in shonen manga, now that fujoshi are being taken seriously as a market, I think is pretty telling.

There is no way you can convince me that Naruto kissing Sasuke by accident, or L and Light being chained together, or Gokudera constantly squabling with Yamamoto (etc.) is because they are all really gay but the creators' true visions are being supressed.

Except in a very few instances, I think that is mostly just wishful thinking on the part of fujoshi who want to squee that their OTP is OMGSOCANON!

Actually, slash/yaoi fans very seldom believe our ships will be canon (though we often joke about it). And not all slash/yaoi fans are fujoshi, for that matter. In fact, I think very few of us who've left the first fascination stage of slash/yaoi would call ourmselves such.

But the fact that it is showing up more and more,

Compared to what? The incredible straightness of Saint Seiya?

now that fujoshi are being taken seriously as a market, I think is pretty telling.

Of what? That the mangaka are finally allowed to put in more subtext because there's an audience for it? That they can imply certain pairings more freely?

There is no way you can convince me that Naruto kissing Sasuke by accident, or L and Light being chained together, or Gokudera constantly squabling with Yamamoto (etc.) is because they are all really gay but the creators' true visions are being supressed.

Well, I wasn't really trying to. I simply wondered if implied pairings were there because the creators wanted them to. But why do you think it's impossible?

In regards to terminology, I use fujoshi to describe yaoi fans in general, much the way many western fans use the word otaku generally for fans of anime/manga/games. In any case, it is the population of Japanese yaoi fans that is driving the phenomenon, however they choose to self-describe.

That the mangaka are finally allowed to put in more subtext because there's an audience for it?

This makes it sound as if you think that shonen mangaka have always wanted to write gay subtext and now are finally able to after waiting so long. That may be what you believe, but I ain't buying it.

This article (and the ones it references) is pretty interesting, you should check it out:

http://mangacast.net/?p=1846

And just to be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible, I am just saying it is less likely and less frequent.

In regards to terminology, I use fujoshi to describe yaoi fans in general, much the way many western fans use the word otaku generally for fans of anime/manga/games.

Well, since you're the only one I've seen doing it, I was a bit shocked. Much like the Japanese often still are when people call themselves otaku. I don't think it's an accepted use for the general yaoi fan population yet.

This makes it sound as if you think that shonen mangaka have always wanted to write gay subtext and now are finally able to after waiting so long. That may be what you believe, but I ain't buying it.

I believe nothing. I just ponder the possibility.

This article (and the ones it references) is pretty interesting, you should check it out:

All right, correction; I have now seen two people use the term "fujoshi" inappropriately. You know it means "rotten woman", right? And that only the exceedingly obsessed are supposed to warrant the name?

She seems to have no facts on which to build her essay, so I don't quite know what to say. A lot of the things she said about Weekly Jump was completely wrong, I could tell right away; I'm currently taking a manga/anime course at university, and we've been taught about the Jump sales and its target audience among other things.

I'm curious, for example as to why she thinks the abundance of BL doujinshi for Jump series is the cause of Jump's popularity, rather than an effect of it. And all that speculating on the thoughts and intentions of the publishers...

Do you really want to argue about differing opinions you and a total strange have regarding trends in Japanese comics?

Also, this:

All right, correction; I have now seen two people use the term "fujoshi" inappropriately. You know it means "rotten woman", right? And that only the exceedingly obsessed are supposed to warrant the name?

sounds pretty damn condescending. Please do not assume that I am less intelligent than you because my opinion differs from yours, especially on such a petty subject.

Well, you linked the article? I have no idea where she gets her information, but a lot of it was at odds with what I've learned at my university course.

And I wasn't trying to be condescending; I was a bit unsettled by the use of the word, since I actually speak the language. I was trying to express surprise and unease, and honestly wondering if you do now the meaning. I mean, how should I know if you do? It's not a normal word. It was a bit like someone trying to make a polite argument, while calling their subject "fucker" every other sentence (not a perfect analogy, but it's a almost as strong a word).

I made no assumptions about your intelligence; I just wondered if you knew a word in a different language.

Indeed, I do know the meaning of the word. I certainly did not mean to offend you with my usage. Though I admit to using it occasionally to refer to yaoi fans in general, the sort that I was really thinking of with my origal post are the more extreme sort. The ones who think of every male character as being gay, hate any hetero relationship, and actually do insist that Naruto/Sasuke, L/Light, Vash/Wolfwood are canon.

I know the majority of slash and yaoi fans do not fall into this extreme, but it is an annoying minority.

Again, I sincerely didn't mean to offend. I have read more than just the one article about manga, including more accademic sources. Like any other cultural topic, I think there is room for interpretation.

We cool?

Of course! I tend to get defensive when yaoi fans are generalised about, sorry.

The ones who think of every male character as being gay, hate any hetero relationship, and actually do insist that Naruto/Sasuke, L/Light, Vash/Wolfwood are canon.

Yes, bloody fools, the lot of them. They tend to keep to their own corners of like-minded, which makes it easier to avoid them, luckily.

Like any other cultural topic, I think there is room for interpretation.

Absolutely.

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[ SECRET POST #677 ]

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