[ SECRET POST #4857 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4857 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.



__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.



__________________________________________________



10.












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 11 secrets from Secret Submission Post #694.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. https://i.imgur.com/PF3iVvR.png

[(Anonymous)]

The way the term was described to me way back when I first got into fandom applied to a specific type of character regardless of whether it was an original work or fanfic, and it was associated with bad writing more than anything else. Maybe it would make sense to have different terms, one for when this type of character/writing occurred in original work and another when it occurred in fanfic, but honestly, I don't really see the point, and I really don't know why some people are so adamant that it HAS to only be applied to fanfic.

[philstar22]

Honestly I just don't think the term has a use. there isn't a clear definition. The way you define it is used by a lot of people, the fanfic-only way is used by a lot of others, and there are other definitions as well. The lack of a solid definition has led to it being applied to any female character, any heroic character, any character with any kind of power, and other characters as well.

In my opinion, even if it were ever a useful term, it just isn't useful anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

Because, I think, a "Mary Sue" in fanfic is someone a fan made up who comes in and pushes aside the canon characters (which most people were there to read about). This...can't really happen if the whole cast are your own OCs. I have seen instances of a "canon Mary Sue" but mostly after the cast has been thoroughly established for a long time but TV Tropes refers to this type of character as "the Scrappy" instead.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually a Scrappy can be one for several reasons. I think Creator's Pet is the trope you might be thinking of. All Creator's Pets are Scrappies but not all Scrappys are Creator's Pets.

[(Anonymous)]

a "Mary Sue" in fanfic is someone a fan made up who comes in and pushes aside the canon characters (which most people were there to read about). This...can't really happen if the whole cast are your own OCs.

That's not a definition I've ever seen. Maybe the people who say it isn't a useful term because there's not one solid, clear definition are right.

The way I've always seen it used is for a character that's perfect and everyone loves, which can obviously exist in original works as well as fanfic. She's depicted as amazingly beautiful and ridiculously intelligent and all the men fight over her and all the women are jealous of her and there's not a skill in existence that she hasn't somehow mastered and she's boring as fuck because no actual humans can relate to her.

[(Anonymous)]

"and she's boring as fuck because no actual humans can relate to her."

Except people clearly ~do~ relate to her, because she keeps coming back.

Cheesy wish fulfillment fantasies are still, you know, a part of human nature.

[(Anonymous)]

Thiiiissss. This has always been the definition of a Mary Sue, in every fandom I've ever been in. The aspect of the Mary Sue trope where the non-canon character pushes aside or otherwise upstages the canon characters is such a fundamental part of the trope.

It's really the only context in which the term Mary Sue has some real, objective definition that can't simply be applied to any character a person doesn't like or get or vibe with.

[silverr]

To me it's always been a character with no flaws, who overcomes every obstacle with ease and achieves every goal without effort.

Bo-ring.

[philstar22]

Depends to me. What is a flaw? Superman is generally physically able to overcome most things. But he has flaws still. And his own personality causes him to stop short of overpowering everything because he views it as wrong. So you can still make an overpowered character complex.

[silverr]

Please note that I didn't say anything about being overpowered/superpowered.

The original fandom Mary Sue character didn't have superpowers (unless you consider intelligence and knowledge a superpower), but she also was seen as "perfect in every way" by EVERY character around her. Everyone (including any potential antagonists) either was in love with her or wanted to be her. She solved every problem effortlessly. She never had internal conflicts, never had a Dark Night of the Soul.

Whether it's fanfic or not, a character with no flaws and no struggles isn't relatable, and for me that makes them flat, bland, and uninteresting.

[philstar22]

I guess I'm not sure I've seen that many truly perfect characters. I don't read that many OCs, admittedly. But in published fiction, the characters I see being called sues are the superpowered ones like Rey in the Star Wars sequels who just happen to be good at what they do and smart and people don't like that. That's why I don't like the term. I've never seen it used in a way that was genuinely useful for anything.

[silverr]

I don't consider Rey a Mary Sue either.

The only non-fanfic character I can think of right off that might fit the definition is classic James Bond. (IBF yes, from our perspective he's massively flawed in many ways, but within the Bondverse that never seems to cause him any difficulty.)

[(Anonymous)]

A flaw is a character trait that causes negative consequences. For instance, a character who is too forgiving has that as a flaw if they forgive someone they really shouldn't who then comes back to hurt that character or someone else.

A lot of times, Mary Sues will have character traits that look like flaws on paper but that never actually come back to bite them in practice. It has to be something that actually has a bad side in order to be a real flaw.

[(Anonymous)]

When you hold the standard criteria for a Mary Sue to an original fiction protagonist, or rather all the different criteria, it's just kind of like "well what can the protagonist do?

[(Anonymous)]

I know this was a comment secret made in the same thread as the other Mary Sue secret, but if you're the one who commented about how Mary Sues can only be OC's/if that's your only reasoning then you are just plain and simply wrong. If not I would love to hear why you think this, since it's something that I can't quite wrap my head around.

[(Anonymous)]

imo 'Mary Sue' is a good term for 'and thus the world revolves around them to an obnoxious agree and they're flawlessly wonderful'.

Has anyone else ever read Elizabeth Haydon's Symphony of Ages books?

Because, fuck it, published work or not, Rhapsody is the most Mary Sue to End All Sues.

[(Anonymous)]

Never heard of it, but actually sounds kind of interesting.

[(Anonymous)]

What's with all the Mary Sue secrets lately?

[(Anonymous)]

I always thought of Mary-Sues as a sort of insert connected to everything and everyone loves said character - like in a post-established series kind of way? I'm not sure if I can it describe it right, but like how Mystique in the X-men Dark Pheonix gets re-written as this beloved teacher at the school, who has a bond with the main protagonist (Jean), is an adopted sister to Professor Xavier and has a romantic connection to Beast & Magneto - so that when her death happens its an almighty tragedy that drastically affects everyone.

Then again I guess I think like that because forever ago, me an my friend from school use to try and think up the ultimate Mary-Sue who transcended all series & fandoms while being connected to as many main characters as possible (ie: Megan Morgan, a 20 year old who had been married to Kakashi before divorcing him to be with Harry Potter when she left her career as a super-scientist ninja to be a part-time florist in the wizarding world, while taking up an interest in time and alternative-dimension traveling thanks to her friend the Doctor leaving Megan with a spare tardis because she can totes be trusted not to screw up history/reality because she is so smart and good etc... The whole point was to make it as batshit as possible or at least trying to figure out how the ultimate harem would work for her)

[(Anonymous)]

This is hilarious, lol!

[(Anonymous)]

+100000000 I truly cannot second this enough.

The term was coined to describe a certain type of OC in fanfiction. The fanfiction aspect is inherent to the definition of the trope.

Mary Sues were considered annoying because people came out to read fanfiction of a particular set of characters, because they were fans of the canonical text - and here was this random-ass OC who was not native to the story, upstaging the main characters in their own story. The issue was not merely that the character was too sparkly, or drew too much focus unduly, it was that it wasn't her story, and there she was, totally appropriating the entire thing.

When you apply the term to an original character in their own story, it changes the nature of the term pretty significantly.

[(Anonymous)]

Good grief, anyone who lives in a country where most things are shown with subtitles know that it's not elitist, because millions of people manage to do it just fine on a daily basis, and it's not that much of a demand to ask English speakers to consider trying a subtitled non-Englsih film once in a while when the entire world manages to do it with films in English pretty regularily....

[meadowphoenix]

wrong comment