[ SECRET POST #4862 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4862 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 24 secrets from Secret Submission Post #696.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/jaVpv5L.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Eh? Honestly, I think people are straining themselves looking for reasons to be mad. I don't see how it implies real bigotry doesn't exist. It does. THAT'S PART OF THE JOKE.

[kaijinscendre]

Right? If the bigotry didn't exist there would be no "bait and switch".

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. The joke only works because it plays off peoples' expectations about real life bigotry. WTF...

+1

[(Anonymous)]

All of this.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's hilarious too. I don't get what's problematic about it... it's not saying bigotry doesn't exist at all. If anything, it's saying bigotry shouldn't exist, or that it exists in ways one wouldn't expect.

[(Anonymous)]

I used to get w chuckle out of these jokes - much like the [sees picture of gay couple] “wow I’d never support my son in a relationship with a man... who dresses so poorly! - ones. But then someone pointed out to the me that the punchline is the expectation is one of bigotry and oppression. It’s a joke at the expense of real things that do happen, and it’s always felt like punching down to me since then.

[(Anonymous)]

I see the applied above don’t disagree with me - just the framing! I don’t like the expectation of bigotry as a joke. Yeah it’s ‘subverted’ by the punchline, but that’s kind of like threatening to punch someone and they catching your hand in front of their face and saying ‘haha, I didn’t punch you! Why are you upset?’

[(Anonymous)]

DA - yeah, that's exactly it!

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, adding a lesbian voice here and it's... Not great.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure that's accurate. A punch is still thrown. It's just that while you have your eyes shut in anticipation of the hit, the person goes around and punches you in the ass instead.

[(Anonymous)]

Saying something that turns out to be not-hateful is a punch in the ass... how?

[(Anonymous)]

Well... no? I don't think that analogy works at all. The joke is that the initial set-up from Person A made Person B think that a bigoted statement is coming... but it never was. So in your analogy, that's like seeing someone throw a fist in your direction and flinching, only to find out that they actually meant to do something harmless.

Person B didn't block the punch or the bigotry because Person A never intended to punch person B or say something bigoted. And in the original scenario, Person A isn't laughing at Person B for their mistake... they're not even in on the joke because they're not necessarily aware of Person B's expectations.

[(Anonymous)]

This is how I feel about it. The joke in the original post isn't anything I'd get up and arms about, but it makes me uncomfortable.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh. I don't really get the appeal, it just makes me flinch and go "is this show I enjoy about to say something against me? ...ah, okay, they were just trying to be haha funney."

[(Anonymous)]

I'm with you. Not only do I think it's funny, I also secretly feel really defensive of this kind of humor because whenever my abusive mother made similar type of jokes, it was a telltale signal that she was back in a good mood. Granted, bigotry wasn't involved in our fights, so it's not "problematic" in the same way, but I just can't condemn anything tht reminds me of that familiar feeling of relief I would always get when she would say something like "get in here, I have to talk to you........it's about this cookie. I don't want it. I need you to eat it."

[(Anonymous)]

Get therapy. Like, seriously. Get therapy. This is not healthy.

[(Anonymous)]

I called my therapist (who has been instrumental in helping me survive my mother for a long time) and told her about this comment, because this is something I never thought was THAT messed up, and she said she was curious what exactly about my post caused such a strong reaction. Is it that my mother does that in the first place, or my positive feelings about it because of the context, or what? Can you clarify?

[(Anonymous)]

I can see both sides. As a person who... has been on the receiving end of a fair amount of prejudice (er, well, you know what I mean), there are jokes that follow that formula that I do find funny, but the tone is important.

It doesn't imply bigotry doesn't exist, but it DOES imply that the speaker is so in their bubble as to be unaware of it, which... like, I can definitely laugh (have to, some days) at people who mean well but have their heads up their ass. But, while there are examples I laugh at, there are also times when it really is just, yeah, flinching from something that then doesn't happen.

So I really don't blame other marginalized people-- especially those whose struggles I don't share and can't ever fully know-- for hating this type of humor. When it doesn't land, it's Bad, and we deal with enough out in the real world. But I don't judge people for laughing at it, either. Sometimes I don't and sometimes I do.

(No idea how much of the difference is my mood when I hear an example vs how much is whether the writer of the joke is themselves marginalized or not and I am responding to something different in the tone)

[venusundae]

i think these jokes can be funny sometimes. sometimes they just miss the mark tho, or leave a sour taste. bc of how touchy the subject can get, it really depends! but i don't think the existence of these jokes implies that bigotry doesn't exist, or that you can't be sensitive to it even when you find them funny

[erinptah]

I think the "implies that bigotry doesn't exist" idea is from a slightly different kind of joke -- the kind where one of the characters in-universe gets offended in the middle of the statement, and then is poked fun at for jumping to the wrong conclusion.

So for the gag in the screenshot, it would've gone "I don't want my son to end up with a woman like Lana Kane!" "What, because she's black?!" "No, because of her job, now don't you feel silly and over-sensitive getting all worked up to fight against racism when it was all in your head."

Those, I don't ever like. The kind that's actually in the secret, though -- I agree with you, it depends on how they're handled.

[venusundae]

ah, that makes sense. thanks for pointing that out!

[(Anonymous)]

I'm more irritated that TVTropes calls it a "Discriminate and Switch" when "Hate and Switch" works much better!

[(Anonymous)]

(quiet applause)

[melissatreglia]

Legitimately my favourite "discriminate and switch" joke in a non-comedic show was in the beginning of SG1.

When a female scientist (Captain Samantha Carter, who is very awesome, tyvm) gets a little miffed because she thinks Colonel O'Neill doesn't want her on his team because she's a woman, he counters that he just doesn't like... scientists.

Spoiler: They end up having a fabulous working partnership with a little UST-y goodness, as the seasons go on (that never actually goes anywhere because they're military and have to keep it professional).