fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4876 ]

[ SECRET POST #4876 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4876 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 37 secrets from Secret Submission Post #698.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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03. https://i.imgur.com/TSATw8Q.png

I get that. TROS was kind of held up as a "return" to the style of TFA after TLJ. But I liked both of the others better than TROS. It just wasn't good.

I saw someone online say that it was like JJ made a third movie after his imagined second movie that doesn't exist outside his head and that made a lot of sense to me.

Like TLJ or not, it existed and you have to work with it and I believe a better written movie would and should have.

different anon:

I mean almost the same could have been said to Rian “like TFA or not you still have to work with it”. It felt like he dropped everything JJ had set up so he could make his own movie.

That’s my beef in general with the sequel trilogy...the movies just don’t feel like they really slot together the way they should and it seems sloppy.

yeah i don't understand why ppl give JJ so much grief over not following TLJ when Rian ignored most of what JJ did in the first place.

it's why i dislike both TLJ and TROS, they both read like individual movies in the same universe with no connection to each other and that's why the 'trilogy' is shit, because it's not actually a structured story through all 3 movies.

Rian should have been given his own un-numbered movie to do if they didn't give a shit about continuity.

DA

I keep hearing this criticism that Rian Johnson didn't follow up on TFA and I really befuddled by that claim. Could you give me an example?

rey and finn were helmed as the leads, and in TLJ he was reduced to nothing more than a side-character who made quippy jokes as opposed to a hero who fought by rey's side and had her back. also being a narrative foil to kylo: someone raised in a horrible environment only to rise above it, while kylo had a good life but fell from grace due to snoke, that disappears.

there's also the fact that kylo has personal beef with finn at the end of TFA and that gets ignored like it was never a thing.

rey's entire 'seeing the good' in kylo when the dude had murdered the man she'd grown fond of as slashed her friend's back open, like she straight up HATED him at the end of TFA, but one force-whammy vision and suddenly everything's k and she's trying to see the good in him because of reasons.

snoke becomes a maguffin and a truly confusing as shit character who's existence was pointless because he gets murked in 5 mins for ~subversion, instead of following from TFA having him as the final Boss to vanquish. and TROS's subsequent attempt to explain him did not make it better.

I think the Finn stuff is correct and a major weakness of the movie (although I think there's a possibility it was mandated from above but who really knows on that) (and also, like, JJ does way worse in that regard in TROS).

But the Rey point is not at all a good reading of the emotional journey her character undergoes in TLJ, and the Snoke point is dead wrong to me, because Snoke is just as much of a McGuffin in TFA as he is in TLJ.

ayrt

I really enjoyed Finn's journey in TLJ and how he went from fighting only for Rey to wanting to fight for a bigger cause. I agree that Finn's stormtrooper past kind of ending up not mattering, but that was a TROS problem.

Rey was always shown to be very compassionate in TFA, so it makes sense that she would empathize with a situation so close to her own: Kylo being abandoned (or so he believed) by someone he loved and trusted. Add to that her belief that her job was to bring back a Jedi hero to the Resistance (it clearly wasn't going to be Luke) and she put all her hope in Kylo.

Snoke wasbasically was the Emperor of the OT: no one really cared about him. His death opened up Episode IX to being something other than ROTJ 2.0, I thought.

"Rey was always shown to be very compassionate in TFA, so it makes sense that she would empathize with a situation so close to her own: Kylo being abandoned (or so he believed) by someone he loved and trusted. Add to that her belief that her job was to bring back a Jedi hero to the Resistance (it clearly wasn't going to be Luke) and she put all her hope in Kylo."

I don't agree - I mean, there's compassion and there's "the guy was the epitome of evil , tried to kill my frined and did kill teh otehr guy I was friends with, who, by the way, was his father, and tried to give him an out-of-jail-all-is-forgiven card, about three freaking days ago" (TLJ takes place almost immediately after TFA). I'm sorry, but in what freaking universe should she be so trusting and so hopeful so quickly? Remember how she grew up - that's not an environment that breeds a lot of blind trust in people.

(DA, btw)

the "different anon" above the anon you're replying to:

some things:

The Knights of Ren, they're built up to be this 'thing' in TFA but they don't show at all in TLJ. You'd think they could have been the ones Rey and Kylo were fighting in the throne room at least.

Snoke: also built up to be a Big Bad and then killed pretty ignominously. Made me wonder what the point to his character even was.

Hux: TFA shows him to be fairly formidable, even though there was some humor made at his expense. TLJ makes him a pathetic laughingstock.

something small that I noted in my original reaction post to this back in the day: TFA made Threepio's arm red. TLJ made it gold again. Why bother? Why did it suddenly change? It doesn't actually affect the story, it just seems like a pointless change.

TFA builds up this idea that Rey's parents are out there somewhere. TLJ goes on to explicitly say she doesn't have any (both between Kylo telling her and her Force vision on Ach-To that only shows her reflections of herself).

In TFA, Finn seems interested in Rey, including with a joke where he wants to know if she's got a boyfriend. In TLJ, they give him Rose as prospective love interest (what with the love declaration at the end which I disliked because it came out of nowhere but that's a whole other thing)

There were other things in general I disliked about choices they made for the movie but they're not specifically related to how I thought JJ set some stuff up only for Rian to say, "nope, not going to do that, in fact I'mma do something else!"

I mean, I don't hate TLJ but I came out of it kinda disappointed. I liked it better on second viewing. I do think it was gorgeous and that was one of my favorite things about it.

ayrt

Well, we can both agree on the gorgeousness at least! :)

Knights of Ren: Rian Johnson didn't want to use them as canon fodder. I think at the time he knew JJ was most likely coming back for Ep IX.

Snoke = the Emperor. As I said upthread, it opened the door to Ep IX not being a rehash of ROTJ.

I can see your point about Hux, but I'm the type of person who can see ridiculousness and ruthlessness coexist in the same character (one of the reasons I love The Death of Stalin so much, I suppose).

Threepio had his gold arm back at the end of TFA.

TFA built up the idea that Rey believed her parents were coming back for her, but also shot it down. As Maz Kanata said: "Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back."

Re Finnrey: while you and I might believe something had been started, it doesn't seem to have been intentional. John Boyega: "I mean, we didn’t establish a romance in seven; we never played it that way. Daisy and I, we’re friends. [So there’s no romance?] Yes, Finn and Rey – they’re just friends."
https://variety.com/2016/film/news/star-wars-episode-viii-darker-bigger-john-boyega-1201774027/

Get out of my head!

I feel you, OP. TROS killed my life-long love for Star Wars.

TLJ had problems - I liked it plenty, but it was definitely a flawed film. But TROS was such a heap of dogshit I don't even know where to begin, so yeah... I'm glad that so much of fandom agreed with me, at least.

Almost same here. I haven't lost all my love for it, but it definitely put a damper on things. I'll see read selected novels (the new Padmé book and Alphabet Squad look nice... miiiiight check those set further back in time out if the characters look interesting enough) but that's about it.

I'm usually able to ignore the bad things (or the ones I don't like) in all of the Star Wars movies, but I genuinly can't remember a thing (apart from tiny moments like the three-way-hug in the end and some of the cool visuals) from the movie that I actually liked. It bums me out. I was SO looking forward to it and managed to have almost no expectations, just a few wishes here and there (that I didn't expect to be granted anyways) and I sat in the cinema, unspoiled for the first time in a very very long time and the further into the movie I got, the more dread filled me cause nothing made sense and I wasn't liking anything I saw. :(

I'm really glad for anyone who loved it (It's kind of fascinating how most people I talked to who loved it didn't like the first ones as much as vice versa), but I just couldn't and I'm sad.

Totally understand that, op.

I got too many feelings about it all to express so I'll refrain. I will say that all of everyone's repeated assurances of how the film would be "satisfying" for audiences and have an ending that represents "hope" during the promo circuit just makes me angry to think about now.

Where I'm at right now is it's a garbage movie and I hope we can make as much fun of it as we did the prequels, but it might not even be interesting enough to mock

That's how I felt after TLJ. Just killed my love of the sequel trilogy.

I loved TFA and didn't hate either of the sequels as much as other people. However, OP you made me realise my liking of SW has lessened particularly since TLJ. I was a Kylux shipper as well as shipped Kylo/Poe as well as stormpilot.
The third film too a big dump on all of those ships. Even Reylo to some level for obvious reasons.

Did I write this secret and then accidentally submit it? Because this is almost exactly how I feel.

I broke up with Star Wars back during the Fate of the Jedi book series but was open to getting back into it when Disney wiped the slate clean with Legends, see if maybe they'd learned something from the old EU and it would be better this time...

TLJ killed that for me, because it showed that there wasn't ANYONE who was planning a cohesive story across the sequel trilogy, and TROS was not just the last nail on the coffin but spitting on the fresh grave to boot.

but hey, I read the Children Wake Up fic series and that was more than enough closure of the themes from TFA for me. *shrug*

I was able to enjoy the sequel trilogy because my memory is so shit that I forgot everything that happened in each movie by the time the next one came out, so I didn't notice that there was no coherent story to link them together.

Are you me, OP? I have the same problems with it too (mainly the sequel trilogy as a whole).

What the sequel trilogy taught me was this: the hate for the prequels wasn't justified and they're pretty much Casablanca by comparison because Lucas had a whole story laid out, unlike Abrams and Johnson. At least the prequels brought us good memes ("absolute power", "we were all rooting for you, Anakin", "ironic", Darth Plagueis, "this is podracing!", etc.). The sequels didn't have that same impact, except "traitor!" and "REEEY!!" but that's about it. It was also heavily merchandised and tons of spoilers galore back in 1999-2005. You can watch a video by World Class Bullshitters entitled "Star Wars is a DEAD Brand. The Merchandise Rots in Stores." for more on this.

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[ SECRET POST #4876 ]

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Not OP but...

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