[ SECRET POST #4887 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4887 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.



__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.














Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 61 secrets from Secret Submission Post #700.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. https://i.imgur.com/tiY2jrQ.png

[(Anonymous)]

I sort of agree. Especially on the "well they didn't actually say the word so it doesn't count." Excuse me, exactly how many times did Fred Astaire, Audrey Hepburn, John Wayne, or Katherine Hepburn use the word "heterosexual" in a movie?

[(Anonymous)]

There are ways to show that something is unambiguously textual without using the word "gay," but you're making a false equivalence because heterosexuality is the default in society which means people are much more liable to see something as canon when it's heterosexual without its presentation being heavy-handed.

[fizzyrose]

I think a lot of the problem is that there isn't as many canon LGBT characters/couples as there are cishet ones...so what little there are have to be very good to make up for it. But what people don't realize is that they aren't helping by being overcritical and holding such characters/couples to a higher standard than cishet ones. The point is that they're supposed to be treated as completely equal.

I also honestly suspect that most of the time it's people being performative because they're upset the canon LGBT couple isn't the ship they wanted to sail so they try and find ways of validating their discontent. But it comes across a lot worse in these situations than it does with cishet characters/couples because they're not as common.

YMMV on this one too because how many and how widespread LGBT themes are in media really depends on what you're into. I watch a lot of shounen/seinen/action type anime and like a lot of traditional fantasy so I see very little canon LGBT characters and couples at all...aside from fanfic. So I don't often have to run into this discourse all the time...people are usually arguing over whether there are any LGBT characters to begin with and ranting about subtext.

[(Anonymous)]

True, and it probably doesn't help that some of the more crazy hater aspects (*cough* Steven Universe) gets hyperboosted because it's so ridiculous.

[(Anonymous)]

Also just true of cartoon fandoms in general

Cartoon fandoms are always bad IMO

[fizzyrose]

I never got into SU. The most I know about it and the fanbase is that there's serious drama going on all the time and at least half the people watching it hate it and kept up with it solely to bitch and complain. And the alien rocks.

OP of comment secret

[(Anonymous)]

I think the performative aspect makes up a large bulk of it honestly, the fans either wanted different canon-gay, or the canon-gay they got just doesn't work for them, which is fine honestly, I'm gay and I don't like every canon-gay pair under the sun because it's not possible for them all to click for me.

But instead of reconsigning this I feel like fans take it too far and start acting like some canon-gay ship on some random show is The Devil and all kinds of ~problematic for X,Y,Z reasons that don't even exist... instead of just admitting they didn't vibe with it.

And I just have... so much more of an issue with people doing that than just not caring for the canon-gay and moving on.

Re: OP of comment secret

[fizzyrose]

Yes, this exactly.

[(Anonymous)]

100% agreed!

[(Anonymous)]

The thing I don't get about this is that half the point of representation in media is for people to see themselves reflected in those characters. You need imperfect characters for full representation.

To use a slightly different example - having a strong female lead who loves drinking, can wrestle a kgb agent twice her body weight despite no training and is a mechanic would have been refreshing maybe 15 years ago now it's just the new stereotype. They slap them in there and call it a well won fight for equality.

True equality is to see women, LGBT, BME characters in any facet of a story, not just their new stereotypes.

[(Anonymous)]

Big mood with just slapping one-dimensional action girls everywhere and expecting back pats for doing so much for women and equality. This character has been a trope since ever yet it feels but people treat it like it's something new every time they see it and each time a more main stream media has a character like this she seems to be getting more and more flat. It's like putting a gruff and emotionally stunted male detective who is otherwise superbly competent at everything and putting him into every story for no reason and whenever you see a new one crop up you act surprised to see him and exclaim "no one's done this before!"

Give me a smart female character who uses her brain to solve problems. Who is competent with a lot of weapons but has to utilize skill and tactic more than physical strength because she's usually smaller than most of her opponents. Who recognizes she needs help sometimes and that things are easier when you have someone watching your back. There doesn't need to be some black and white either you have an OP female character or a weak doormat who can't do anything.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly at this point I'd take still having that same OP female character who can bench press everyone and is a mechanic and can outdrink all the men and all that but she's played by an actual super buff muscular actress instead of a sexy blonde waif, at least it would be slightly different.

[venusundae]

i'm tired too. sometimes i just wanna relish is what we have rn!

i feel like part of it is the lgbt community has had to grow accustomed to their entire existence being nitpicked like that tho. and like the media criticism is just coming from a place of being conditioned to impulsively defend ones existence. as well as beating Tha Straights to the punch at criticizing their own rep? tho another factor is also just the unhealthy echo chambers that develop in certain online spaces.

there's certainly many reasons why that one could ramble on for days about it ofc. but that's the idea i always catch myself falling into on occasion. like i gotta stop myself and be tell myself "whoa, chill. you are allowed to like an imperfect gay otp even if you don't think it'll convince anybody to suddenly accept you???" lmao sad and exhausting.

[rivia]

i hear you, but like someone else said, there just isn't that much representation still, and what there is can be hit or miss. *gestures over at the magicians and the bullshit they pulled with a quiet, nerdy depressed bi kid going through 4 years of growth and then it all being thrown in the toilet*

OP of comment secret

[(Anonymous)]

The Magicians is an example where I feel the crit and disappointment over it is fully justified, what they did there was completely atrocious, but then I always hated how they handled their LGBT rep in that show, it was never done well imo.

But most of the time I don't even feel like the crit I've seen over the years is based off of genuine issues, it's just fans having their expectations not met in every single way and then throwing a fit about it and I am just so sick and tired of it.

[(Anonymous)]

I can agree. As long as the critiques aren't of the work doing something harmful or perpetuating something harmful as ok we need to let things not being perfect, especially if they're written from a personal place.

[(Anonymous)]

THANK YOU. In my teens I would have killed for even half the LGBT content we're getting right now.

[(Anonymous)]

TBH I tend to struggle writing queer rep into my original fiction for this exact reason. I hate feeling like the relationships must be 100% wholesome or someone will come at my throat for it.

[(Anonymous)]

IA

the whole "everything has to be wholesome" trend just really pisses me off and i find myself judging people who insist upon it.

People aren't always 'wholesome' . Fuck, my bi girl has a 'bad girl' rep she embraces and is low key dating a pair of siblings (a boy and a girl who are twins). I'll fight anyone who says that she's bad rep.

[(Anonymous)]

On the one hand, I do believe part of the criticism is because we don't have as much representation as we could have and sometimes writers take those representations and shit over them. On the other hand, I get really tired of people saying that the characters aren't gay and in love with each other unless they have sex or things along those lines. That pisses me off so much.

[(Anonymous)]

I’m regularly pretty insulted by the idea that as a Gay I should be grateful for every single Gay Thing I can get. I agree with you, OP, that the crusading it-must-be-ideologically-perfect-or-bust crowd gets lame. But I hate being told that as a homo I’m supposed to be slavishly grateful for bad content.

[(Anonymous)]

op mentioned the Magicians above so there's defintely room for legit criticism of terrible content. our problem in general is that fandom has a hard time differentiating between genuine crit and "well I just am not into this therefore it's objectively bad" crit, so whether or not any of it gets back to creators...is it going to make a differnece? are they going to dismiss honest criticism as being lumped in with the latter group or are they going to wisely know the difference and bring us better content? who's to say.

[meadowphoenix]

weirdly I actually think it's because this rabid nitpicky media criticism was fully originated in fandom, usually to defend ships and headcanons and theories, because that used to be the only places you saw non-het ships, whereas most het ships get commentary from non-fandom sources also which simply isn't as nitpicky because that audience is more casual watchers too. fandom could do with an understanding of critical thinking and queer theory in particular so that this was all grounded instead of about feelings.

[singie]

OP are you me? I was thinking the same thing yesterday. If I was a script writer or director today I'd stay the fuck away from anything that could pick the interest of LGBT/diversity crew. They are impossible to please and too eager to "cancel"