fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #695 ]

[ SECRET POST #695 ]

⌈ Secret Post #695 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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[resized]

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[row row fight da powah]

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[Stargate Atlantis]

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[Metal Gear Solid, Iron Man, House, Silence of the Lambs, Lord of the Rings, Batman, American Psycho, Dexter, Silent Hill]

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[Panic! At The Disco/Flash Flash Revolution]

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[Death Note, resized]

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130. [repeat]

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[Dr. Who]

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[they're poets from WWI]

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[Metal Gear Solid: TWINS LINKED BY CURSED GEEEEEEEEEEENES]

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[Kuroshitsuji]

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Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 361 secrets from Secret Submission Post #100.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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The Japanese are the last people who should be laughing about WWII, considering the shit they pulled against the Chinese people and Allied POWs. At least the Germans actually acknowledge that their country fucked up and have tried to atone for it.

I don't know that much about what Japan has done since the war, but I do know that the Japanese state issued a formal apology.

They refuse to acknowledge that they actually violated any international treaties during the war.

They also refuse to hear suit brought against them for monetary compensation.

But it's not like they didn't suffer as well. What with the nuclear bombs and all....

I have absolutely no sympathy for them. They invaded China, killed millions of Chinese citizens and soldiers, in addition to committing horrific experiments on both Koreans and Chinese. Then they launched a surprise attack on the US fleet because of the (rather rightful) embargo by the United States.

In addition they treated POWs horrifically.

And in the end, dropping the atom bombs was an alternative to actually invading the home islands, which would've led to massively higher casualties, both military and civilian, on both sides.

Not to mention actually invading the islands would have meant the involvement of the Soviet Union and the extremely likely scenario of having Japan split into two countries like Germany and Korea.

Excuse me? I can't believe you just said that. Yes, Japan committed atrocities during the war and believe me I know because I live in Malaysia and we felt the Japanese's invasion. My family has personally suffered as well. But to say that you have no sympathy for them after they got a nuclear bomb dropped on them? The people of Hiroshima still feel the repercussions of that, they still suffer from radiation poisoning. Countless of generations of lives still suffer because of this ONE action and you have no sympathy?

The main issue some of the commenters here seem to have about Hetalia is the fact that it seems to have no regard for human pain and makes light of the loss of life suffered during the war. And right now? It's you that seems to show this disregard and callousness.

The dropping of the atom bombs was a military necessity. Those two events are far out-weighed by the crimes committed by the Japanese military and government. In essence, the hand of the US government and military was forced.

The unnecessary deaths of civilians are always regrettable. You may think my attitude is callous, but the alternative to that action was a casualty count in the millions from a US invasion of the Japanese islands.

... I cannot go into this. If I do, my indignation might just result in a comment war which I'm trying to avoid. You have your views, I have mine. I believe that the events in WW2 had been taken to extremes by all parties involved. Not one country is at fault but it is the result of everyone's bad judgement. Yes, we do horrific things in times of need, but I still think that the atom bombs were unnecessary. You're thinking about the result of Japanese strategy IN THAT TIME. The atom bomb affects people till NOW. If you add that to the deaths that had amounted THEN as well, is it really better? Is it really necessary? War needs to be something that one looks at in the long term, not just the short term and the problem with war mongers and the military of every country is that they only seek an easy way out. They only look at the short term and don't think about the possible long term ramifications of their actions.

We are not talking about countries and their faults in the world war. We are talking about Hetalia, a comic. How is Hetalia any different from other political comics released by the west and other countries? Do they not give human characteristics to objects and/or countries from time to time? Have not some of these jokes been made before? Hetalia is a - admittedly non-PC - form of entertainment. It's supposed to be ridiculous. It's supposed to be silly. It's not meant to be taken seriously. It generalises certain characteristics which people from some countries seem to have and gives it human characteristics. Hetalia is harmless. And the mangaka has obviously not made any untoward "we of all Japan laugh at the pain of WW2 nyahahahaha!" comments through Hetalia. It concentrates instead on the relationships between the countries.

Besides, everyone seems to be concentrating on WW2. It's not the only thing that Hetalia looks at. It looks at various other historical events from ancient history to contemporary history. Sometimes, it looks at it with great sensitivity. It's a work of fiction which uses examples from history. Does that not sound familiar? Is that not what other fiction writers have done time and time again? Did Shakespeare himself not take examples of historical events and make it his own? Are we now going to condemn Shakespeare since we're condemning Hetalia for doing the same thing?

It does not make light of human suffering. It is instead trying to amuse readers. In fact, it even makes people more aware of world history. Things that a lot of people did not know before, they now know because of Hetalia. There is good and bad in every form of entertainment, of course, but to say that Hetalia is full of harm just for this one small corner of what it doesn't even concentrate on is just grossly wrong. Maybe people need to read Hetalia or at least learn more about it before they make judgemental comments that only proves how little they do know.

Apologies for the RP journal.

I will agree to disagree with you on the atom bombs. Not really looking to get into a huge debate on that subject, regardless.

And I agree with you on the rest of Hetalia as well. I have no issue with anthropomorphizing countries to examine relations between them. I find the idea interesting and rather cool. The only part where do take issue with it is the treatment of the Second World War, as I've mentioned. I've taken a look at it before. Not my cup of tea and I tend to find the fan-art more interesting (can't tell half of the countries apart, anyway).

Fuck, I'm so enraged that I'm not even going to bother to change out of my Hetalia RP account. Yes, I RP as Japan.

In real life? I am a Singaporean whose family was forced into hiding during the Second World War. My father tells me stories about what happened shortly before he was born, and the persecution they faced. We don't need to get into the details, but rest assured I used to be very anti-Japanese as a child. I do bear many grudges against their actions during the war, and I am not without anger at their crimes. You cannot call me unsympathetic towards my own country, but I have Japanese friends. I have an appreciation for their culture. To me, You are acting like my five-year old bigoted self with a self-justified streak. What is wrong with you?

You are looking at it in the way that some Japanese people look at their own war crimes: "it could not be helped", "it was a cultural difference", "It didn't happen". You are clearly angry that the Japanese government has not acknowledged the inhumanity of their crimes. I am also angry, to an extent, but I would not consider the Atom bombs "Justified". How can you justify the killing of tens of thousands of uninvolved civilians as humane, and deserved just because a proposed, equally destructive operation was suggested? YOU are the one who is denying the horror of the war on the part of the Allies. Yes the Japanese needed to be stopped, and perhaps there was no other way to go about doing it except going on the offensive, but what they did was cruel and it should not stop you from feeling sympathy for human life.

Just because one side has committed atrocities does not mean the other side is immune. Depending on who wins the war, and who has the most influence, things will be glossed over in history. Many of Japan and Germany's secrets have been revealed because they lost. I do not suggest that they are RIGHT, or that these things should have been kept under wraps, because I deserve to know what happened to my family, but what has been concealed because America, UK, France, and Russia won? What don't we know about because you're all too wrapped up in your ideas of justification? The Japanese are people too, some of my best friends are Japanese. They lost their loved ones and were hurt as much as we were. Some of them still lose loved ones living in those areas to cancer. Can we deny them that sympathy just because of their government and some of their military so many years ago were irresponsible and inhumane?

To me, your assertion that "The Atom Bombs were a mercy" is the same as Japan glossing over its atrocities. I'd like to know, would the death toll really have been worse? The aftereffects of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are still felt even today. The radiation is still killing people through abnormally high instances of cancer, directly an effect of the atom bombs. Scientifically proven. If the early deaths, miscarriages and abnormalities of uninvolved civilians over sixty years through cancer do not total more than the deaths of voluntary soldiers after that hypothetical mission, I would be surprised.

I don't know where you get your ideas from, but it looks like the American textbooks have glossed things over, just as the Japanese ones have.

This has nothing to do with the fact you find hetalia distasteful. I don't care if you do. It is up to you what you read/watch. As _calex_ said, it's entertainment and if you find it crass, so be it. It's just that your, yes, callous attitude towards the Japanese people... towards the suffering of other human beings... I can't accept it.

Feel free to argue or not. It's 6am and I only have two hours to sleep now, so I won't be getting back to you any time soon.

Fucking THIS. I didn't think I could love you any more, Japan-mun, but I do. Fucking this.

And besides, doesn't the main story of Hetalia actually feature very little of the war itself, and more of the period BEFORE the war? That's what I gathered, anyway.

Re: 139

nipponpon.livejournal.com - 2008-12-01 11:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 139

badtz-kami.livejournal.com - 2008-12-12 01:26 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 139

(Anonymous) - 2008-12-01 09:55 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 139

nipponpon.livejournal.com - 2008-12-01 11:14 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 139

nipponpon.livejournal.com - 2008-12-01 11:36 (UTC) - Expand

THIS.

Thank you!

LOLOLOLOL they APOLOGIZED? Since fucking when? The day they fucking apologize, it'll make front page news for a month.

I actually love Hetalia too, but god you're making my side look stupider than it actually is. Way to prove the OP's point.

The Japanese government did issue an apology on "moral" grounds back in the '50s. However, this does not change the fact that they continue(d) to ignore that they violated international treaties and refuse to hear any further suits that were brought against them by victims of Japanese brutality.

Point, but one Japanese dude who draws a webcomic != attitude of Japan as a whole. For all we know, the author is just as likely to acknowledge that his country is at fault as he's likely to deny they did wrong. No one really knows.

True enough. It still rankles me, however.

Very understandable, considering the material we're discussing. I would probably share your sentiments if I took Hetalia as something besides a not-quite-PC shallow comedy.

Oddly enough, this discussion makes me think of the book I just finished called "The Wind-up Bird Chronicle". Have you ever heard of Haruki Murakami by any chance?

I'm afraid I haven't! I'll have to look it up next time I'm at the library. What's it about?

It's hard to describe because it's so fragmented. The main character starts out by losing his cat, meeting mysterious women, having his wife leave him, and, most importantly, being contacted by an old man who fought in Manchuria during WWII who ended up changing his life. Everything ties up completely at the end though, so it's not just some deceptively shallow word salad.

What made me think about this book was the fact that Murakami wrote about what the Japanese did in Manchuria with such an unflinching eye. Was there some favoritism towards the Japanese? Yes, considering that it's one of his older works, but he balanced it out by being as graphic as possible when describing the racism and brutality between the Japanese and Chinese during the war.

Sounds like an interesting read. Thanks for the rec!

The author pretty neatly dodges any bombshells (the point of the WWII comics is mostly to illustrate Italy's uselessness during WWII more than anything else) by not discussing the great atrocities of any nation, focusing exclusively on military events and actions.

I kind of just read it for the idea of personifying certain (mostly non-tragic) events in history. Also. America. fuck yeah.

Yeah, I know. Not quite such a big fan of it since I just started reading it last week or so, but a fan nonetheless. S'up.

I read it mostly for the laughs myself, but I'll admit some of the characters are growing on me. Especially woobies like Canada and Lithuania. I'm a sucker for woobies. Also, everything is better with Hungary.

America's enthusiasm kind of scares me, though. And I say this as a US citizen.

America makes me LOL, and I say this also as a US citizen. I think as a heavy generalization, he's pretty accurate to the American attitude regarding foriegn policy (We can help! We can do it! We're the hero!).

Canada is quickly becoming one of my babies, and if Hetalia slash didn't squick me SO HARD I would basically ship America with Lithuania if only because yeah, I'm a Cold War kid and any country in Russia's possession is a country that I wish America would adopt and help, IRL and in the comic.

Glad you're enjoying it! I feel one really has to take this series for what it is; if you can't get past it parodying history, then it's not a good series for you.

Every single person in Japan =/= "Japan" as a single, whole unit. Does the government have to say "we fucked up, we're sorry, and we'll make up for it" before any Japanese individual can approach that particular piece of history with anything other than shame, deep bows and apologies?

This is as bad as my friend saying that the Japanese did horrible things in the war, Japan is a horrible place, all the Japanese are horrible people who hate everyone not Japanese, and they INVENTED THE MONSTROSITY THAT IS TENTACLE RAPE HOMG which is why it is a horrible, horrible thing that I like anime/manga/J-pop/etc. Japan as a county does not necessarily reflect every single person inside of that country. And your comment below -- quoting so you know exactly what I am referring to and get the context of my response:

I have absolutely no sympathy for them. They invaded China, killed millions of Chinese citizens and soldiers, in addition to committing horrific experiments on both Koreans and Chinese. Then they launched a surprise attack on the US fleet because of the (rather rightful) embargo by the United States.

In addition they treated POWs horrifically.

And in the end, dropping the atom bombs was an alternative to actually invading the home islands, which would've led to massively higher casualties, both military and civilian, on both sides.

Just basically shows your stance that you believe that every single Japanese person is somehow responsible for those horrible deeds. Yes, a lot of Japanese people did terrible things. Using that as an excuse to have no sympathy for any individual men, women, or children who were affected by the bombings, even if they were completely necessary? Is goddamn heartless and invalidates any point about respecting the victims of tragedy that you're trying to make.

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