fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4901 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4901 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I cannot, cannot understand the logic behind "Dismantle the police." People think that if resources are redistributed so nobody "needs" to commit crimes anymore, there will be no crime and no need for police? I think that's bullshit. The existence of our current shithole of a police force and the society that lets it thrive proves that the logic is bullshit. The police don't "need" to murder black people, the mentally disabled, or anyone else they do. They do it because they want to. People like them would be criminals in a police-free society, but who would deal with them?

The logic is that everything would be perfect if people had everything they need has an underlying belief that all people are good and fair. Obviously they aren't. Even if most are, there will always be a few who seize the opportunity to take advantage of the rest of us and put themselves in charge, and we'd be back where we started. I don't understand how protestors of police violence could think a peaceful crime-free society is possible.

Not exactly asking for advice, so this is just venting, but maybe someone can explain it to me?

>People like them would be criminals in a police-free society, but who would deal with them?

Doubtful. Sort of like how most Nazis just went back to normal lives after WWII.

The point of "dismantling" the police is to dissolve their current military state and retrain them towards community servants.

Okay, but the keyword is "most." You said it yourself: "most Nazis." Not all of them, and Nazis still exist today. So even if most police would be better people if they weren't police (although a lot of the people talking about dismantling them also seem to believe they're all inherently bad people and can't unlearn) some of them wouldn't, and would just take over and recruit more decent people so they could have power over everything like they want.

Well, shit then. Since only MOST would, we should just stick with the status quo!

You're always going to have shitty people in any system, but you can design systems in ways that are harder to corrupt. Instead of having a system devoted to increasing the shittiness.

I think you're taking "Dismantle the police" as "no law enforcement ever", which really isn't what people are talking about. What people are saying is that law enforcement has no business being in about 98% of the things that they're called to deal with (i.e. someone in mental health crisis, a homeless person loitering, etc.), and they should have their reach scaled back to a point where they will never be called to those situations again. The absolutely absurd amount of money police currently get would be disseminated to other services that are trained to deal with those particular scenarios both productively and no violently, focusing on getting the person(s) involved help instead of "scaring them straight" or immediately arresting them,funneling them into an abusive, retribution-based prison system that is almost impossible to ever get out of due to the way a prison record legit ruins your life.

Also, it is true that crime rates go down alongside depolicing. Of course it still happens, but not at nearly the rate.

Law enforcement would still exist. But they would be purely for scenes of active person-on-person violence, and even in that case, they would be more heavily trained in deescalation techniques, have bodycams on at all times (to be reviewed by an independent board outside the police system), and have accountability at all times.

This, and then even more so - even with the specific tasks that do need some form of police-like intervention, that doesn't have to mean that it has to be police forces as they exist now. It doesn't have to be the same institution, it doesn't have to be run by the same people, it doesn't have to have the same name, etc.

Thank you for this. This is the first time anyone has explained that it doesn't mean "no law enforcement ever," because that's exactly what all the other explanations sounded like they wanted.

Well, the whole big movement could use some work at being clearer with what they really want, then.

I understand the frustration. When so much is happening at once, it's easy for people to let things boil down to a neat, clipped, easily retweetable soundbite, so nuance definitely gets lost along the way.

Thank you for being open to hearing this perspective!

When I've heard people talk about it, they mean that the power structure is corrupt and it needs to go. We can't have police that are only held to standards of conduct by other police. It's created a workplace culture where police protect each other instead of protecting and serving the people.

The them vs us divide mentality never have been allowed to happen. When police aren't engaged with their communities they don't understand the frustrations and difficulties they face. When they don't work one on one with young people in early intervention programs, all teenagers are a faceless destructive force in their minds. When they aren't engaged with different cultures and minorities they become "other" instead of individual people. To only see the worst in people every day makes people distrustful and combative. Policing has become so divorced from the community it's supposed to protect that it completely dehumanises the civilian population in the minds of the police. All we are to them are potential murderers, rapists, burglars, and thugs.

The explanations I've seen involve a lot of 'community support' and stuff and I'm like, you do know that the police... are part of the community? That the same racist sexist assholes you're afraid of because they've been given all this power are STILL gonna exist and are STILL gonna be racist sexist assholes even without all that power?
And like... if anyone's ever had to deal with some overzealous HOA, they know that power corrupts, even very small amounts of power, and dickheads are always gonna be dickheads.

IDK. I mostly just like the 'defund the police' people, because fuck no the police do not need as much money as they're getting.

Yeah, some police would still be racist sexist dickheads even if they had never joined a police force, but think of it like a frat (very like a frat, police unions are basically fraternal orders of police under a different name) they take existing shitty behavior and excuse and encourage and shield it behind a wall of power and privilege. They’re like hothouses for conscienceless asshole behavior. And some people who join for a good job with benefits and because they’ve seen too many cop shows get encouraged to set what empathy and compassion they do have aside because it actually hinders them at being cops.

If every time someone was having a mental breakdown they were met by social workers and therapists and EMTs, if every time someone was concerned about their elderly neighbor they could ask that a social worker come for a brief wellness check that same day, if every time a person found themselves homeless they were offered a counselor and a therapist and a few nights in a shelter while someone arranged permanent supportive housing, if drugs were decriminalized and their use got you free detox and treatment instead of jail, if half the budget of most police departments went to social programs instead, we wouldn’t need nearly so many police.

And? Stripping those dickheads of power by dismantling the corrupt, militarized structure around them and funneling resources toward bolstering alternative non-corrupt systems sounds like a net good to me.

[ SECRET POST #4901 ]

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