[ SECRET POST #4912 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4912 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 17 secrets from Secret Submission Post #703.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. https://i.imgur.com/tDlH934.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I am literally just sitting here head tilting because I am not sure what they mean by 'remove the misogyny by removing the women'. Am I dumb?

[(Anonymous)]

I believe they mean that you can't have misogynistic depictions of women if you don't have any women in the first place.

[silverr]

... which is just utterly ridiculous to me.

Why not remove misogyny by, oh, I dunno, celebrating women instead? By writing them well?

(In femslash ships...)

[anarchicq]

Oh wow my shoulders physically jerked at that remove the woman line. How the fuck...

[(Anonymous)]

you seem to be confusing "women" and "painful hollow fictional caricatures written by men to be sex objects, scapegoats, or both"

I am not obliged to rehabilitate the later in the name of protecting the former

I will remove the misogynistic heaps of woman-shaped putrefying jello from my casual entertainment with extreme prejudice, and you're the one with comprehension difficulties if you think that has anything to do with misogyny on *my* part

[(Anonymous)]

Generally I find that if the women in a work of fiction are written as badly as you're talking about, so are the men, because the writer is just bad in general, so I'm curious how unbiased you are.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, not just a little defensive there, are we?
Have you considered - and you might want to be sitting down for this - taking the effort to write these otherwise shallow characters with depth and variety is a much more positive and much more feminist act than just throwing up your hands and going, "It's too hard so I shan't bother!"
Excising female characters and saying that's less sexist makes about as much sense as excising POC and saying that's less racist. It's not! You're just sweeping the problem under the carpet, where it will rot and stink up the place.

[(Anonymous)]

what fucking media are you engaging with where the women are either of those options? bc i haven't seen with any shows/movies where the women are written that badly for at least a solid decade.

[(Anonymous)]

Or you could try, y'know, writing them better than the content does? Also if you are that bothered, why do you like the media (however casually) in the first place? Try interrogating your own likes before getting shitty about other people's "reading comprehension" - ad hominem attacks are a dead giveaway jsyk.

[(Anonymous)]

That seems like a very inaccurate representation of what most people are actually saying, which is that for a lot of women, real world sexism and misogyny, and their personal experiences with those things, can’t help but factor into how they experience the text. And often it ruins or dampens their enjoyment of the fantasy, in a way that doesn’t happen with M/M.

Here’s a link to a post that articulates it well:

https://three--rings.tumblr.com/post/189420029708/threerings-theres-always-a-lingering-question

[(Anonymous)]

This.

People who say what the OP is saying claim if you like m/m better all you need to do is say you like dicks. But I think people like the OP just don't like m/m and think they need to explain it by making m/m fans out to be sexist and themselves more feminist for liking women in ships. I think they should just say they don't like m/m because they like girls.

[(Anonymous)]

i always find that argument ironic because i've seen so many m/m ships where one of them men is turned into 'the girl' anyway, so they don't even escape that misogyny, they just slap it onto a dude instead.

[(Anonymous)]

Bless u

[(Anonymous)]

Yep.

[(Anonymous)]

God, so true.

[(Anonymous)]

Lol Yup.

[(Anonymous)]

Giving a male character stereotypical sexist traits given to women is not turning him into the girl. The whole appeal is that for once it's a guy and NOT a girl who has those traits.

[(Anonymous)]

Except they don't. That's an old and tired claim that's been passed down from days gone by in fandom back when it was *somewhat* true, and is now just parroted by people who dislike the idea of m/m and thus have never read enough of it to see for themselves that hardly anyone has written it that way in ages.

[(Anonymous)]

lol I'm sorry but this just made me think of anime fandoms back in the 2000s where it was either this mindset or just turn any female character into the 'evil bitch for the sake of the plot' position in fics.

I dunno why anyone would need to clarify that though - if you really don't want to write a character in your fic, then just write what you do want to write with whatever character you want.
As someone who writes femslash in fandoms where not only are the women written badly, but there's no way for them to have met (or sometime exist) in the same storyline universe - it's all down to re-creating and going off with that imagination baby.

[(Anonymous)]

Some people have a very hard time accepting that others have personal, legitimate, non-bigoted reasons for liking something they don't. So they have to twist those others' words into something that sounds misogynist or something-else-ist and paint them as liars making excuses.

You don't have to personally like m/m, OP. Deeper reasons for enjoying m/m than "liking dick" can coexist with your disinterest in m/m. It's okay. Their reasons don't make your disinterest wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

Condescending tripe. OP quite literally objects to "remove women" as a claimed reason to ship m/m. And OP is right.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I don't have a "disinterest" in m/m! Have a little reading comprehension, jesus.

[(Anonymous)]

Regardless of whether this is OP's motivation, it's certainly how they come across. No one is arguing that not writing female characters equals combating misogyny. Literally, links or it didn't happen. Yet here's OP, strawmanning the shit out of the incredibly valid things that people actually ARE saying, about how m/m allows them to avoid feeling confronted by thoughts and concerns about sexism when all they're trying to do is enjoy some fucking fanfiction.

Either OP is being willfully obtuse because they're mad people are sidelining their fictional faves, or they're just well and truly failing to understand the thing being expressed, which they are so critical of.

[(Anonymous)]

That is so bizarre to me. As much as I love my m/m ships, those problematic tropes are very clearly still there. They're right, in a sense. It's technically not misogyny. But it's still the same behaviors. They're just being committed on a male.

"Brain worms" is right.