fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4928 ]

[ SECRET POST #4928 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4928 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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04. https://i.imgur.com/D25cLFc.png
[Emma 2020, OP warned for male nudity (from the back)]

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05.

[Star Wars Expanded Universe, resized]

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06. https://i.imgur.com/R7v6vL6.png
[365 Days, OP warned for image of a dub/non-con sexual situation]

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07. [SPOILERS for Far Cry 5 and Far Cry New Dawn]

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08. [SPOILERS for The Magnus Archives]

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09. [WARNING for sexual assault]

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10. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #705.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Good thing there ISN'T actually a push to make kids trans for not conforming to gender norms, then!

And good thing professional sports don't already police gender norms to a horrifying extent--oh wait, yes they do, cis women can be banned from competitions for being exceptional and cis men never are.

ayrt

Honestly, I hope I'm wrong and there isn't and it's just what it looks like because of media and social media because every time there's a pic of a celebrity's kid with this kind of a haircut or that kind of clothing or whatever there are immediately a lot of voices yelling about the kid being trans.

And professional sports do wrong by women often, you're right. I was specifically talking about the call to allow transwomen to play in female leagues.

Media blows something out of proportion and probably gets it wrong? I'm shocked.

Okay but hear me out here...if cis women already get tested for natural hormones and exceptional performance in sports, and are ordered to take testosterone blockers /already/ lest they do /too well/, I feel like there's bigger problems for female leagues than a teeny tiny proportion of transwomen looking to compete (who would have to follow the same medieval rules, I imagine)

OK, sure, but how many people stop to question things they see in the media? It feels like there's a push BECAUSE the media is overblowing it.

It's absolutely a bigger problem, yes. There's also a bunch of other things that are a bigger problem, unfortunately, I am definitely not saying this is a huge problem. I'm not even saying it's a big problem, it might not even be a problem at all at the professional level yet (hell, it might not ever even become a big issue) I was just replying in the context, if the question is should they be allowed, my opinion is no because, again, sports separation is a question of biology.

Well, YOU clearly don't question what you see in the media, so if we're looking at sample size...

And okay, if it's not a problem at the professional level yet, why does it MATTER, then? Are we pearl-clutching at hypotheticals now? And, again, women in sports are already being punished on a biological level--how in the fuck does a hypothetical trans athelete MATTER?

I feel the same. I am so freaking angry at what they did and are doing to Caster Semenya, the humiliating physicals (repeated), the public scrutiny and misgendering, the insulting articles, definitely a wealth of racism as well as sexism behind the insults. After Semenya won the gold at the Rio Olympics, fifth-placed Joanna Jóźwik reportedly claimed that she was the "first European" and "second white" to finish the race. Sour racist grapes.

So they told Caster she'd have to take drugs to reduce her testosterone, even though there is scientific proof that testosterone does nothing to increase women's performances. And she fought it, and appealed it yet again, and they punished her for it, making her miss the World Athletics Championship in 2019 because Semenya didn't fit the sporting world's definition of "woman." Well, fuck that. We have to open our eyes and our minds and stop trying to chop off pieces of women to fit them into boxes and only then allowing them to compete. That's bullshit.

“So they told Caster she'd have to take drugs to reduce her testosterone, even though there is scientific proof that testosterone does nothing to increase women's performances.”

first result for “does testosterone increase athletic performance”: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/oct/15/testosterone-boosts-womens-athletic-performance-study-shows

Okay, thanks. That's a much more recent study than the ones conducted at the time Caster was going through all that shit, though. The IAAF were punishing her in advance of any scientific evidence, but whatever: Caster was assigned female at birth and raised as a woman (this is according to interviews with her during the controversy). If we are going to decide that "woman" means "testosterone of less than 5 nmol/L!", that's a judgment that is based on...nothing. Biology argues differently. "Femininity must be defended!" the IAAF say, and I say, who the fuck gives you the right to say what is feminine? My body says otherwise. So do the hairs on my chinny-chin-chin.

If LeBron James has an unfair advantage of eye-hand coordination far superior than 99.99% of the rest of basketball players, are we going to make him wear funky glasses to even the playing field? Caster has a genetic advantage over other women. So what? Suck it, Joanna Jóźwik.

I found out recently that the issue with Caster Semenya is bigger. She was allegedly raised, trained and educated as a boy and it was only in recent years that there was a push for her to be identified as female.

There's so much corruption in South Africa that I can well believe someone took advantage of Caster Semenya.

Where’d you hear that from? I’ve followed the story somewhat closely and haven’t heard anything about that.

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Yeah I really don't get where the "everyone thinks kids who don't conform to their assigned gender roles should transition/must be trans" stuff is coming from. I see the occasional person saying similar stuff about fictional characters, but not actual children.

And I can't even imagine someone transitioning from male to female solely to gain an advantage in sports, what with bs like cis women having gotten banned from sports for having naturally high testosterone, not to mention the absolutely abysmal pay female athletes receive compared to their male counterparts.

+10000

There are countries that already put their athletes through some illegal shit just to get advantages in competitions so I can absolutely see some regimes making male athletes start to transition to win female competitions.

And in this supervillain hypothetical situation, the trans people are still the bad guys because....???

NAYRT--they probably wouldn't even be trans, though, except in the case of looking female-bodied and wanting to be male-bodied again. I guess that'd be one way for more cis men to empathize with trans people, but yeah, a government pulling that shit would totally be made up of supervillains. Not that there isn't a lot of that going around these days.

Aryt didn't say they would be?

If the subject at hand is "we shouldn't allow trans women to participate in sports because what if evil people force men to transition so they can win", the problem entirely ceases to be about trans issues, so bringing up this hypothetical becomes nonsense.

The Soviets did it...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09523360802658218?mobileUi=0&journalCode=fhsp20

I never said they would be.

It's not people transitioning just to get advantage that's the problem. It's trans women who have already transitioned expecting to be able to compete in women's leagues and crying discrimination if not allowed. Like fuck off already.

And your sample size here is....

Um, no? Why should they fuck off?

Why is their advantage "unfair" but a biological cis woman born exceptionally tall, strong or broad is not an unfair advantage?

Also, you do realize the incredible amount of harassment and hatred lobbed at trans women athletes, right? It's not like male athletes are transitioning just so they can sweep women's sports, and btw, that's not the case even with trans women athletes that are competing right now.

It's additionally interesting to me that a lot of people in this thread seem to think it's feminist to believe that people born male are naturally better at sports despite the shape or physiology of their actual bodies.

I'm the parent of a gender non-conforming 8 year old, and you bet your ass that we've gotten pressure about whether he's trans or not.

The kiddo knows that transgender is a thing that you can be, and we've had a number of talks about whether he particularly feels that he is transgender or would prefer to dress and be referred to as a girl. Every time, he looks at me like I'm stupid and patiently explains (in my own words, back to me) that he's a boy who likes unicorns and purple and has long hair and nail-polish and that there is nothing wrong with that. He's right... but he shouldn't have to explain that to nosy neighbors and school principals and nurses.

Boo fucking hoo. Trans kids get bullied, harassed and worse every fucking day for how they present and what they wear. If we hadn't created a world that was so unwelcoming to trans children nobody would be asking your kid about it now.

Have you had follow-up talks with him about how he should stop looking at you like you're stupid for telling him it would be okay if he were actually a she? I think the fact that he thinks you're stupid for giving him the suggestion says something, mm, not good about you or outside sources he's been influenced by in thinking about trans people.

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