fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #705 ]

[ SECRET POST #705 ]

⌈ Secret Post #705 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

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103.

[Elf]

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104.

[Naria: Caspian/Susan]

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105.

[Hellsing]

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106.

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107.

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108.

[Snoop Dogg, Sensual Seduction music video]

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109.

[Weiss Kreuz]

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110.

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111.

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112.

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113.

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114.

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115.

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116.

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117.

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118.

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119.

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120.

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121.

[NCIS]

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122.

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123.

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124.

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125.

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126.

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127.

[Eternal Sonata]

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128.

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129.

[Fullmetal Alchemist]

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130.

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131.

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132.

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133.

[Spirited Away]

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134.

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135.

[Prince of Persia]

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136.

[Eureka]

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137.

[It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia]

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138.

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139.

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140.

[Harry Potter]

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141.

[Special A]

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142.

[Labyrinth]

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143.

[Making Fiends]

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144.

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145.

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146.

[Bust a Groove]

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147.

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148.

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149.

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150.

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151.

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152.

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153.

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154.

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155.

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156.

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157.

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158.

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159.

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160.

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161.

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162.

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163.

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164.

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165.

[Hetalia]

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166.

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167.

[Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann - Gurren Gakuenhen]

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168.

[MSNBC, Morning Joe: Joe Scarborough/Mika Brzezinski]

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169.

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170.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 165 secrets from Secret Submission Post #101.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Oh, I'm sorry. I completely forgot that people ship Rahm/Obama because they want to explore the intricate dynamics of their relationship and examine the political landscape of America through the lens of a loving but unlikely gay relationship at Washington's centre.

Give me a break. People ship it because it's hot or because it's funny.

Hmmm, not to get in an argument with you, but I disagree that everyone ships because they think pairings are hot or funny? True, I like some ships just because I find the people hot together, but there are ships that I like because I do want to explore the intricate dynamics of a particular relationship. I won't say that's necessarily true for everyone (in that ship or in general in any other fandom) but whose to say that people don't like pairings because they find the dynamic interesting, or because they think it is a good way to look at the realities of the environment around them?

I'm talking about Rahmbama, not shipping in general.

Because Rahmdom is of course excluded from the rules of the rest of fandom?

Okay, so in case you didn't notice, not every fandom and every ship is exactly the same in every fandom everywhere. I mean, if you're determined to get all upset because I am clearly talking about all slash everywhere rather than just trends in slashing the current administration, then go right ahead, but you'll still be wrong.

Oh, I get it. You're new and not even in the members-only comms for the fandom.

Uh, go on thinking what you'd like, then. Just to let you know, though, I'm not the upset one in this conversation. I've been in fandom too long not to find some amusement in the strange generalizations of others.

I'm not upset either.

What exactly were you trying to say with "Because Rahmdom is of course excluded from the rules of the rest of fandom?"

Hey, you heard what they said. What we do is sick and wrong. Of course we are exempt from the rules of fandom. Plus, we're all blathering idiots, and everyone in every other slash fandom ever is articulate and intelligent. Did you miss that memo or something?

There are not enough dead fish in an oil slick to handle some of these people :/

You know, I know that you're probably used to arguing with people who maintain that it's "sick and wrong" for some vague reason, but I've never even alluded to thinking that. If you'd like to argue against a strawman, can you do it somewhere else?

Oh, she's not saying we're sick and wrong, from what I say. Just that we are either in it for the sex or the lulz. Admittedly, we do have sex & lulz (like most awesome fandoms), but hey, we know we're more than that, and that's all that matters.

Personally, I'm happy just with all the awesome people we've got in our fandom. <3

Out of curiousity, what more are you than that? And you are aware that you present as being in it for the sex and the lulz, right?

Okay, apparently I was not clear. For me, fandom is not two disparate parts (sex & lulz). There is sex, yes, and there is the lulz, the latter of which I can appreciate more than the former, but there is also writing (and more) that addresses more than that.

For instance, I've used it to explore the media, news cycles, and culpability. There are explorations of power dynamics, personal v. political, oneself and ones desires v. the greater good, the personal as political and the political as personal, the subsuming of individuality under greater mantels carried, and simpler things like love and friendship and the tiny steps we take to hell. In this fandom alone I've explored religion, the continued issues we as a society have with homosexuality, and other issues that are incredibly important to me. Sure, I write original things, too, but fandom and fan fiction is a lens I can use to put up yet another view of that around me.

So, while I'm not about to say that no, I'm not for lulz in fandom, I will also disagree if you say that we can't be and are not currently more than that.

I said this downthread, but I'm actually quite stunned to learn that people ship them unironically and I can't really comment on it without getting into the RPS debate.

Re: 163

everysecondtues.livejournal.com - 2008-12-10 23:34 (UTC) - Expand

In that case, I still think the argument applies, maybe to a little lesser amount because of the inherent nature of the pairing. We'll never know unless we interview everyone who ship it and gauge whether or not they're being truthful about their reasons. But I guess we'll just have to disagree. :)

It's impossible to interview every single person that ships it, so it's impossible to know "For sure." That doesn't mean we can't make generalizations and extrapolations from the attitudes that we've seen.

Okay, then I have to ask. Are you in the community? Do you talk to the people who are in the community, in depth, about their reasons for shipping Barack Obama and Rahm Emanuel? Have you talked to more than one? I think if that were the case that you can just generalize and extrapolate without actually looking at the fandom, then I can just climb onto, say, fanfiction.net and tell you that everyone who ships, um, I dunno, Harry/Draco is just OMG THEY'RE SO HOT TOGETHER!111!!!111!!~! and SQUEEE HATE SEX and OMG I HATE GINNY!!!!! But I don't think hotness/hate sex/ hatred of Ginny is the reason why everyone ships it. I think there are people who are in that pairing, of that fandom, who do like to explore, say, boundaries between good and evil, or the lengths one would go to protect one's family.

So I feel the same way about Rahmbama.

tl;dr-- no, we can't know for sure, but I think your generalization and extrapolation might be more based off personal opinion and not reality?

BB, you are my hero. You are much more coherent than I am. ♥

I'm in

ontd_political, where we have a lot of Rahmbama shippers. I'm pretty sure it was people in that community who started shipping them to begin with, and there's definitely a lot of back and forth. Basically, it's always boiled down to "for the lulz" or dirty jokes or "God, what a sexy sexy sexy cabinet."

By the way, if you are so convinced that I'm wrong in asserting that people ship it because it's funny or because it's sexy... What exactly are the other options? Why do people ship it, if not for one or both of those reasons?

I'm not saying you're wrong that some people ship it because it's funny or because it's sexy. I do agree that some people do. Maybe it is even a large majority of them. And being in the community, I know we do joke a lot about how "for the lulz" it is, and make dirty jokes, or talk about how sexy the cabinet is, but I don't think that's necessarily reflective of how some of us actually feel about shipping them. It's kind of like how I joke about being Chinese is cool because it means when I'm 40 I'll still look 12, but I'm not happy I'm Chinese because of my looks.

Like, for instance, I think the pairing is interesting because they're two people who early on in their life dedicated a lot of it to politics, for very different but also very similar reasons. They're also two people coming together to work for a greater goal, and I find that interesting in a lot of ships, the idea of teamwork and partnership where the personal relationship isn't the only thing holding the pairing together. They both came from a very corrupt political neighborhood, but Obama embodies a kind of hope for change and honesty that I think Rahm would be attracted (not just sexually) to. There's also an element of Rahm's attack-dog nature re: Obama. And his past experience being an adviser for Clinton. I think there's a lot of really interesting tension in all of that background that makes me like exploring it through a romantic and/or sexual relationship. I know I'm not doing it because I find it sexy/I'm getting off on it and not because it's funny, and there are a few people I talk to often on the comm whom I'm sure don't do it for those two reasons either.

I hope I'm making sense. Please tell me if I start talking too much or become incoherent, or if you're not interested in the conversation and just want to drop it-- no hard feelings.

You know, I don't even know how to respond to this without opening the kettle of worms that is the RPS debate. Personally, I find it a lot easier to understand shipping it just for sex or just for lulz. Frankly, I had not even fathomed that anybody was shipping Rahmbama wholly unironically and my instinctive response is just to ask, "But what about Michelle?!"

I second

everysecondtues, you're my hero (though she is too, because she has said all of this a lot better than I could, as well).

...And that doesn't mean those generalizations and extrapolations won't be hugely unfair. If we had feelings, they would be hurt.

Honestly...and I'm just thinking out loud here...given that the community that is somewhat dedicated to the ship (

rahmbamarama) is almost entirely friendslocked, I'm not sure how outside viewers can claim that we're all "HURR HURR DEY SO HOT TOGETHER OMG." I mean, you can't see our posts. Do you see a lot of that attitude elsewhere? Where?

To be honest, people in that fandom strike me as being some of the most intelligent people I've encountered on the internet. Yes, they are all completely insane -- but still largely articulate and intelligent.

I'm probably just fanning the flames by speaking up at all. I don't know when to keep my mouth shut.

So first you said I called you all sick and evil, and now you're saying that I think shipping it for the lulz and the smut is mutually exclusive from being intelligent and articulate?

Mmkay bb.

Okay -- first of all. Given that I was trying to be polite in that particular comment, could you maybe not take such a patronizing tone in your responses? Just -- ugh. There is nothing I hate more.

However, you're right, I'm not explaining myself very well in any of this. What I said earlier (about people calling us sick and perverted) was not aimed at you so much as it was the original secret maker. I'm sorry I didn't clarify that.

But, as for your second point, yes, I did get the sense, from what you said, that people who ship it for the lulz and the smut are teenybopper fangirls -- not an "intelligent" demographic -- incapable of liking something for any reason beyond finding it aesthetically pleasing. If that wasn't your intention, again, I apologize.

Also, I probably gave the wrong impression by replying to your comments with somewhat-unrelated musings on the pairing and its fans in general, which you took to be direct responses to what you said.

(no subject)

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2008-12-10 23:43 (UTC) - Expand

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