[ SECRET POST #4941 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4941 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 09 secrets from Secret Submission Post #707.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. https://i.imgur.com/t7qxiFo.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

For some reason, western BL fans seem to do that a lot, at least for shows that are less blatantly BL than the worst offenders. The same things were said in praise of Yuri on Ice and Fake, so I suspect it's some unconscious attempt at scoring woke points by proving that they aren't yaoi fangirls. They like the GOOD REPRESENTATION and also love women, see?

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it's unconscious. I used to be very conscious of feeling the need to praise the female characters in everything where I shipped slash (even if it wasn't an actual BL series) to avoid assumptions that I hated them just for existing, as the yaoi fangirl stereotype said I did.

[(Anonymous)]

Fake is a short series mostly about the main couple, who work in a heavily male-dominated profession, and their son, so it's really nice that there's any good female characters at all. That there's actually two and they're very different to each other shows pretty decent intent on the part of the mangaka and makes me much more comfortable as a reader - the opposite of when I was forced to watch Indiana Jones and was deeply creeped out by the fact that women just do not exist unless they're there to be fucked. Like, even the markets in the Middle East are entirely being shopped at by men, like-? Surely not?

Anyway Fake isn't trying to be anything other than what it is imo, but I really appreciate that women exist and aren't horribly written. That counts for something.

[(Anonymous)]

Yuri on Ice is not BL, it's queerbait, plain and simple.

[(Anonymous)]

Hard disagree it's BL with light censorship. It's entirely about their relationship, they kiss, they get engaged.

[(Anonymous)]

They do neither. Japan is literally not the market that censors this shit. I don't give a shit about what bullshit the creators was spewing. They cut the scene, have them hug, and Yuri 'no homos' the fuck outta that 'engagement' when the stupid shit realizes that exchanging rings in a romantic location might actually imply something. Regardless Victor makes the bet with the group that they would marry if Yuri won... which, y'know, he fucking didn't.

There is a fuckton of actual BL and better hinted at/implied romances out there, especially in anime, that doesn't attempt to get off by trying to build itself up off of the pathetic stereotypes of a sport rife with such stigmas and using those reestablished ideas as the main basis as the queerbait romanic default based in hero worship with zero context/zero alternate pov we get with Yuri!

It's about their relationship sure. But all it shows is Yuri being a little bitch and Victor standing around and taking it.

[(Anonymous)]

It's literally marketed and sold as BL.

[(Anonymous)]

And yet it doesn't actually deliver.
I can see it now, Yuri actually realizing that buying and exchanging rings outside a famous church and forcing Victor to have a sworn obligation to him. Y'know, and not five minutes later be completely flabbergasted that Victor would joke that such a thing could mean something serious, let alone marriage, and no homo the fuck out of it.

It's marketed post production as BL because people these days apparently don't know what that means and apparently believe everything they read on the internet. And profit is profit after all. This would hardly be the first case of false advertising to get thirsty fuckers to buy something that has nothing to do with the sales pitch.

[(Anonymous)]

You're an ass who doesn't want people to have anything nice, and I hope you realise you're arguing with more than one anon here. Yuri has very clearly telegraphed social anxiety and panicked at being immediately rumbled by Pitchit.

Mentioned it to my ace wife, who missed the kiss and hates "everyone gets married" plots, and even she responded "if it was a man and a woman nobody would even question that they were a couple." Like, sorry it didn't follow the exact Game Of Life route you want every romance to do or something? Not everybody's does, especially if anybody is shy or closeted. I fucked my wife before I even asked her out, and we were together over a decade before we considered marrying. It happens. YoI has weird direction and POV but there's zero way they changed it at the last minute to make it be romantic. I mean how fucking delusional do you have to be

If that's The Untamed...

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, sort of. They aren't as well developed as I'd prefer. But on the other hand, I can see why some people might think so because after watching a handful of other CDramas, ohhhh boy. The Untamed doesn't look so bad after all.

I think the compliments come from the potential and people basing it off their own headcanons, which is just Fandom 101.

[(Anonymous)]

Some of them had more to do in the series than in the novel but yeah, idk. It always seems very much performative the way people flock to the few female characters (even the pretty terrible ones) as if aggressively liking the female side characters somehow alleviated their guilt for liking the evil fetishy sausage fest and gave them the moral high ground over those icky fujoshis.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah I'm just really gay and girls are pretty.

[(Anonymous)]

Never said that it's the only reason people have for liking those characters.

[(Anonymous)]

Why are you so defensive? If you say that's why you like them, you're fine and the secret isn't about you. If you pretend they're awesome characters because you think "they're pretty" is a bad reason to like them, then it's about you, and you probably make fun of straight girls (and bi girls you call straight) for liking male characters because they're pretty lmao

[(Anonymous)]

Ayrt what kind of convoluted thought process...

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, I don't disagree. While I really like Yan Li and Wei Qing, I'm aware that they're not super complex or even main characters (tho, one could argue that in at least those two cases, the show gave them way more than the novel did)... BUT I'm also struggling to come up with male characters who aren't Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji, who had any kind of super important arc.
Maybe Jiang Cheng?
Wen Ning is basically just there to be the bff. Things happen to him?
Lan Xichen just floats in and out of the story, saying some semi-wise stuff and missing the tree in the forest.
Jin Guangyao has a bit off a story I guess, but given his role, that's expected but his deeds are more the focus than any kind of character development (in his case, I'd even argue that the actor does a lot of the work, since his writing is a lot less gray in the show due to censorship stuff).
Xue Xang? Maybe?

Who else with significant screen time is even left. I guess Sizhui has a side-arc and Jin Ling gets a bit character development, but especially for the latter it's really more about his relationship with Wei Wuxian.

[(Anonymous)]

*Yanli and Wen Qing

[(Anonymous)]

ha, i almost made a secret along these lines but i couldn't phrase it right to get across what i meant.

but basically: yeah. i enjoyed the show for the most part but fucking hell watching the treatment of all the women was like pulling teeth. they're really pretty, but aside from wei qing, who i adore, NONE of them got anything to do, were all tied up with their respective man, and all of them bar the one who literally removed herself from the narrative(and ms. not appearing in this series: baoshan sanren) were DEAD by the end of the show.

more of the male characters got to actually exist as individuals, even if they don't get as much as WWX, because he's the protag, while the ladies would get a few mins at most and then, boom: dead or just written out like nbd.

so i really do laugh at people saying they're 'so awesome'... because it's just not true. enjoy the sausage-fest drama for what it is but don't tell me ANY of these ladies were written well.

[(Anonymous)]

I think they were written fine, there just wasn't ENOUGH writing for them (and as someone else pointed out, the show added more than the novel did, and a lot of CDramas don't even have THAT much so by comparison...). I 100% agree though that they should have had bigger roles.

Also it's Wen Qing.

[(Anonymous)]

if the show added more than the book then... jesus, to be quite frank. and i won't agree that they weren't worse than a lot of c-drama ladies, they're as bad as plenty others i've had problems with with the added issue of none of them being given any story relevance.

ah dammit, didn't realize i'd misspelt it twice before posting, always good.

[(Anonymous)]

BL of all genres has no obligation to have great female characters. It's not a story about women, and it depicts another group rarely represented well in fiction. Direct your ire at things that feature female characters who according to the narrative should be as fleshed out as the men but aren't.

[(Anonymous)]

nope! not when fans are insisting that the women are 'oh so amazing' when they're not. they were all shitty and i get to be annoyed about that. it being BL doesn't give it some magical shield against shitty, sexist writing.

[(Anonymous)]

DA but if fans of male characters can come up with content based on absolutely nothing in canon, why can't fans of female characters?

Plus, in the show, even in the little we got of them, I appreciated the characters we saw. I wanted more, of course, but Wen Qing's pride in the face of everything against her and Yanli's more quiet determination were great.

[(Anonymous)]

They were more nuanced than a lot of female characters in media IMO, but yes I take your point. Even all of their main motivations were driven by the male characters.