[ SECRET POST #5052 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5052 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 18 secrets from Secret Submission Post #723.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I think some people just enjoy characters switching, it's not that deep.

Frankly I see more people talking about how hyper aggressively arguing for either A or B to 'only top' or 'only bottom' is very weird and skirts into hetronormative homophobia, which isn't wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, writing tops and bottoms bothers me a lot less than arguments about which characters are tops and bottoms, and how straight people are totally entitled to argue about gay relationships in those terms.

[(Anonymous)]

No one equals fic ships with RL gay relationships. So someone arguing that Dean is bottom because he's shorter than Sam is not homophobic or whatever you might wish to call them.

[(Anonymous)]

It is, though

[(Anonymous)]

Only reading fic in which Dean bottoms because shorter guys bottoming does it for you: not weird.

Arguing that Dean IS a bottom like that's some intrinsic part of the character and implying if not outright saying that people do it differently are wrong: definitely weird.

[(Anonymous)]

If you're doing it to imply that bottoming is some kind of immutable physical/personality trait and that people who see it/write it it another way are wrong then yeah, it is. It's stereotyping. Thinking a guy must be a bottom because, idk, he cooks and is more emotional is, in fact, a homophobic stereotype. Maybe he is! Maybe he isn't. You can't, in fact, tell by looking.

[(Anonymous)]

Knowing a lot of gay men in fandom, there are as many who will tell you that calling top/bottom dynamics homophobic is homophobic because contrary to what is required belief of the woke, a lot of gay men have that dynamic in their real relationships. Denying that some gay people fit stereotypes is peak respectability politics.

[(Anonymous)]

It's almost like different gay men have different opinions on the matter and it's not up to fandom to decide what's "woke" or not for them.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT: +100 There's a big difference between being gay/bi and claiming those roles, vs. how those roles are the basis for a lot of real-world homophobic and gender-policing abuse. And that includes how often anal sex is framed in terms of humiliation play. So I'd be a lot less suspicious of straight people getting off on gay sex if it wasn't for their peers openly saying that gay sex feminizes me to a degree that I deserve abuse for it.

And there are some pretty complex discussions about sex and gender from gay/bi men who point out and call out bottom stereotypes and bottom-shaming.

[(Anonymous)]

I specifically said the excessive arguing over who tops/bottoms in a ship is weird, creepy and skirts into hetronormative homophobia, ie: who is 'the girl', not writing top/bottom in general.

For gods sake if you have a preference then just read that or write it, it's telling OTHER people what they should be writing, based off of really uncomfortable arguments, is when it crosses the line. And when it's largely straight women doing this? Weird and homophobic.

[(Anonymous)]

For gods sake if you have a preference then just read that or write it, it's telling OTHER people what they should be writing, based off of really uncomfortable arguments, is when it crosses the line.

This. And that includes these really weird assumptions about the motives of people who write switching. I mean, switching exists? It's common? A lot of people like it? It's so weird to say that they must be doing it out of a desire to seem "woke" and not the obvious Occam's Razor idea that - that's just what they like.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

Switching is my fave, I write all my pairings as vers because that's what I like best. I love it because I get to write them doing everything possible with each other, I don't have to rule out a whole list of hot things. And I get to throw in negotiation, competition, turn-taking and all that stuff that is really really to me.

I don't think it's more "woke" than fixed top/bottom - and it isn't any less "woke" either. Tops, bottoms, and vers people all exist in real life, and people who are some degree of vers (under certain circumstances, with certain partners, for certain acts, etc) are way more common than a lot of fic and manga would have you believe. So it's okay to write it anyway you want. Vers/switch just happens to be what I like best.