[ SECRET POST #5099 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5099 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 31 secrets from Secret Submission Post #730.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Accents have no bearing on intelligence.

[(Anonymous)]

This. Ugh, I hate the whole 'accented=dumb' shtick.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not an "accent", though, it's just pronouncing a word wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

Regional pronunciations are accents, are they not?

[(Anonymous)]

No? They're just different (sometimes wrong) ways of pronouncing things.

[(Anonymous)]

When is the pronunciation wrong? How do you determine the times where a certain accent's pronunciation of a word is incorrect, as opposed to just a regional difference?

[(Anonymous)]

def. Accent from dictionary.com:

a mode of pronunciation, as pitch or tone, emphasis pattern, or intonation, characteristic of or peculiar to the speech of a particular person, group, or locality: French accent; Southern accent.

So... a different way of pronouncing things is... an accent!

[(Anonymous)]

Wrong. Different pronunciations of some words from a "standard" is one of the main characteristics of a regional accent or dialect.

That's how you can tell the difference between a Brit and an American when they talk. They pronounce lots of words differently. National differences are just big versions of regional differences.

If you go around "correcting" people's pronunciation in communities where that's the norm, you're going to come off as a giant asshole.

[(Anonymous)]

"Sh"edule vs. "sk"edule is a difference in accent.

"Liberry" is just a mispronunciation.

There are standard variants and then there are non-standard ones that would not be considered acceptable for a particular character. You're actually proving the point here - in the community where the characters the OP is talking about would be living and working, an uneducated-sounding mispronunciation would NOT be the norm. And people who don't talk "appropriately" are corrected or eventually excluded from that community all the time. Not saying that's "right", but it is certainly true.

[(Anonymous)]

THIS fgs. Trying to go all "you are a snob" on OP is just PP's own inverted snobbery showing. LibRary. Not hard.

[(Anonymous)]

It's certainly true that saying "liberry" could be out of character for many characters

It's also true that the difference between "standard variants" and "non-standard variants" is extremely vexed, and at best, very specific to a given context. There is no *normative* sense in which one variant is correct and another is incorrect.

[(Anonymous)]

Definition #2 of nonstandard: not conforming in pronunciation, grammatical construction, idiom, or word choice to the usage generally characteristic of educated native speakers of a language

Definition(s) of normative:
1: of, relating to, or determining norms or standards
2: conforming to or based on norms
3: prescribing (see PRESCRIBE sense 1) norms, as in normative grammar

Your point again?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm from a region where many people pronounce it as "berry". It's STILL recognized as being wrong there, even by the people who say it.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. Is it also an "accent" every time someone writes defiantly instead of definitely, for example? Even if you want to buy into this "errors are just accents" thing,the OP clearly specifies they are talking about ~educated characters, and for better or worse, there's still a socialization process in academia. You better believe I talk differently with PhDs at international conferences than I do with high-school-only folks back home.

[(Anonymous)]

Spelling is a different beast and also lol re: your humble brag.

[(Anonymous)]

Both are examples of mistakes that some people try to pass off as "acceptable regional variations" is my point. It's no more appropriate to say "oh, that's just how people say it where I'm from" than it is to say "oh, I'm terrible at spelling", rather than put in a little bit of effort. Common errors from ignorance or laziness are not the same things as regional variations, and they shouldn't be treated as such.

Not a humble brag. If anything, a totally proud brag. My working-class family sacrificed A LOT to give me an education, and they would be pissed as hell if they thought I threw that opportunity away by insisting I should sound uneducated when I talk to my colleagues just to stay true to my ~roots. OP isn't saying that no characters should ever talk a particularly way. They are simply pointing out that it is expected for someone to speak a certain way (even if it is code-switching) to "fit in" in different contexts.

[(Anonymous)]

And yes, I know I have at least one typo in there. Because I was lazy and didn't proofread it, because I couldn't care less (could care less? Hmm, let's do a regional poll) about writing perfectly in this context.

[(Anonymous)]

Many people, even PhDs, are far less embarrassed by their roots than you appear to be. As a result, you hear many accents and regional dialects, even at academic conferences! It’s amazing how diverse educated language can be when the educated people speaking it are confident in their academic and professional achievements. It’s only the very young or the very insecure who still feel the need to look down on people who speak like the folks down home. And no one who has the smallest amount of respect in their field is going to be thought less of for saying ‘warsh’ instead of wash.

[(Anonymous)]

Not at all embarrassed by my roots. Proud of them. So proud that I want to represent them well by presenting myself well in front of my colleagues. One way to do that is speaking with a more educated vocabulary and better pronunciation than I do in other contexts. You're lying if you're trying to claim that even the most confident, secure person in academia speaks the same way when they present at conferences as they do back home or drinking with their buddies on the weekend. You're also lying if you claim that someone with a stigmatized accent or dialect doesn't face discrimination or exclusion in academia. Hard to gain respect if you can't get through the door.

[(Anonymous)]

Same anon - working on paper revisions just now where one review includes comments like "the writing style could be more academic" and "this would benefit from review by a native English speaker" (...I am one, but I guess when the reviews are anonymous, people make xenophobic assumptions...).

Tell me again how academia is so generously accepting of people with different language skills and styles, and there's absolutely no gatekeeping whatsoever.

[(Anonymous)]

Cool! When we start having medical conferences in person again, I'll tell the several hundred PhDs and MDs who don't speak Standard American English that they no longer exist according to someone on the internet who is so ashamed of being from Podunk that they can't imagine competent, educated professionals who speak the way their grandmother does. Honestly, I am incredibly sad for you and for your family that you think the only way you can possibly make them proud is to make sure you sound nothing like them when you're in public.

[(Anonymous)]

Great, also ask them how much overt and subtle discrimination they've experienced, since apparently you don't believe it exists. Ask them how job talks have gone when they didn't code-switch. Ask them if they feel that their paper reviews, promotion and raise opportunities, and so on, were judged solely based on their competence and expertise and just the same as a person who doesn't have an obvious signifier of being an "upstart outsider". I'm interested to hear the responses and will be stupendously proud to hear we are living in a "post-dialect" society.

[(Anonymous)]

Also...
"One way to do that is speaking with a more educated vocabulary and better pronunciation than I do in other contexts" definitely means the same thing as "the only way you can possibly make them proud is to make sure you sound nothing like them when you're in public."

Or maybe we're just having a misunderstanding because of how amazingly flexible and unstructured the English language is...

[(Anonymous)]

Can't wait to see OP try to function when a well-educated character has a thick Southern accent.

[(Anonymous)]

Correct, thank you.