[ SECRET POST #5134 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5134 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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[Law and Order: SVU]


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[The Untamed - Sect Leader Yao/Sect Leader Ouyang]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 23 secrets from Secret Submission Post #735.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

And I loved the LOTR movies, but the last one came out nearly twenty years ago, nonny. Please understand, this isn't an argument about quality or who's the better writer, or which adaptation of what is better. It's about pop culture, and when it comes to GRRM, it's not just the GoT series that had a Harry Potter-like influence on people who didn't previously read much epic fantasy. It's his influence on publishing and the fantasy genre, and how people keep trying to hit that sweet spot of fantasy + soap opera plots + sex/violence. Now that the show is off the air, that effect has certainly decreased, but while it was running, it was pretty huge.

[(Anonymous)]

People still go back and re-watch the LOTR movies. GOT is dead - it's a dated cultural artifact of a specific period.

[(Anonymous)]

Again, this isn't about quality. It's about pop culture and pop culture influence. Tolkien was a much heavier influence on the fantasy genre a generation or so ago, and it showed. If you wrote a fantasy novel with complex world building and dragons and elves and your publisher wanted to market it so that it resonated with a lot of people, they'd probably namedrop Tolkien. Hell, Terry Brooks made a career out of writing heavily Tolkien-influenced novels.

But now, in 2021? Most of the fantasy being published is further removed from Tolkien... it's basically GRRM-lite, which is extreme Tolkien-lite to the extent that most Tolkien fans would object to the comparison at all.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not saying that GOT is bad. I am saying that it is dated in the public perception and I don't think people care about it anymore. The fact that the last season was bad is a major reason for that, but it's not the gravamen of my argument.

It still has an influence on the genre to the extent that a lot of things fettmling made now or recently were funded because GOT was popular at the time. But that's not relevant to popular perception.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the terribleness of the last season is a big part of why it's sinking so rapidly. If it had had a spectacular, moving, satisfying ending, it would go down as one of the greatest TV series in history. (It's still won more Emmys than any other drama series ever). People would be buying the blue-ray sets and rewatching a LOT more than they currently do. It could have been a lasting classic.

I think also GRRM's inability to finish the series at all hurts it. You need to stick the landing to become really timeless.

Anecdata: I saw Bernie photoshopped into the Council of Elrond a full day before I saw him on the Iron Throne. :D

[(Anonymous)]

I am DA, not AYRT, needed to say

[philstar22]

I readily admit that I'm biased, but while yes, Martin, ASOIAF and to a slightly lesser extent GOT are more now in pop culture, Tolkien just has more staying power in fantasy GOT very much doesn't and even Martin really doesn't have. GOT is already fading thanks to the terrible last season and Martin is probably, in my opinion, going to fade eventually too. His stuff is decent, but fantasy fans are going to move on to the next big thing. There are only a few things that have staying power, and Martin's works aren't among them.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I would not be surprised if a time traveler told me that 50 years from now Tolkien is still widely read, more so than GRRM. It's not just pop-culture-of-the-last-two-decades staying power, it's Frankenstein, Sherlock Holmes, Dracula type staying power.

[(Anonymous)]

I get that but consider: The Hobbit came out in 1937. It didn't get any kind of screen adaptation until the Rankin-Bass cartoon in 1978. It still, in all that time, never went out of print and remained hugely popular. LOTR came out in the early-mid 50s, same deal - international best-seller for decades, translated into dozens of languages, long before it had any screen adaptations at all. The movies is still rewatched often, and the books are still selling, and there's going to be a new Amazon series (based in the Second Age, it seems, thousands of years before the events of LOTR).

It's not the hot new thing anymore, but in the 84 years since the first book in that world was published, there was never a time when they weren't being read. Will GRRM have that kind of staying power? Way too soon to tell. It would help if the show ending wasn't terrible, or if the book series had an ending at all.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

This isn't me being partisan - I actually love both - but I do think Tolkien's influence is much deeper than Martin's and will almost certainly outlast it.