fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #745 ]

[ SECRET POST #745 ]

⌈ Secret Post #745 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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[Trickster Online]

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[Supernatural]

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107.

[Zettai Karen Children]

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[Sprouse twins, Mother 3]

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[Pokemon]

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[RENT]

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[Soul Eater]

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[Storm Hawks]

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[Fullmetal Alchemist - Riza Hawkeye]

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141. Just linked, again. (Warning for... child kissing?)
[Professor Layton]

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[The Dark Tower]

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[Obama. Ozymandias of Watchmen.]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 357 secrets from Secret Submission Post #107.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 (is ironic) 7 8 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ], [ 1 - link to a random site ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

105. Sigh. Cue thirty thousand people claiming it isn't child porn because of X, Y, or Z.

115. Wow, you're not bitter at all.

128. I've got a solution: Stop saying those things.

138. This is basically my gripe with Hetalia fandom - if you can't see why Hetalia offends people, well...

139. Then stop worrying about being a Suethor and go have fun. The people who aren't going to be friends with you because you're a bad writer aren't really worth your time anyway.

152. Oh no, someone doesn't care. Quick, everybody sit down, there's obviously no point anymore.

167. Ozymandias is a megalomaniac.

171. Is that Sephiroth on the disco floor?

BUT SOME EIGHT YEAR OLDS ARE VERY MATURE FOR THEIR AGE!!1ONE

*headdesk*

Eight is a very tricky age.

I SWEAR SHE LOOKED 10.

(oh god, I shoudn't even be joking about this stuff)

And I shouldn't be laughing at your jokes, but here we are.

105, Actually, I think you'll find very few people denying that it is child porn. SPNers are shockingly tolerant of people's kinks, but they're generally not shy about calling porn what it is. You will, however, get some people protesting that it isn't representative of the fandom as a whole and/or that it isn't hurting real children.

I would count "it doesn't hurt real children" as an XYZ because it's irrelevent to the discussion and really attempts to distract from the fact that hey, it's child porn. Sure, children aren't being hurt by it. No one ever claimed they were.

(different anon, BTW)

I think "it doesn't hurt real children" is relevant to the discussion, because the point at which you disagree is not necessarily whether or not something is child porn (It's pretty clear to me that if something is porn featuring children it's child porn. There may be some blurriness wrt the age at which you stop considering someone a child, but with, for example, porn about a 10 year old, I really don't see how anyone could disagree with the assessment that it's child porn.), but whether or not something can be both child porn and okay to fantasize about.

Personally? If something really hurts no one, then I have no moral problem with it. If the people fantasizing recognise that it is fantasy, and would have absolutely no desire to act anything similar out in the real world, I have trouble having a problem with it. The problem (for me) is whether the people fantasizing actually do recognise the fantasy/reality divide, or whether that kind of fantasizing makes them more likely to hurt real children.

The problem (for me) is whether the people fantasizing actually do recognise the fantasy/reality divide, or whether that kind of fantasizing makes them more likely to hurt real children.

This. And once something becomes more accepted, that line is crossed that much more easily. The line is shaky enough that it simply shouldn't be crossed, period.

I guess I don't see the line as all that shaky? Ask any random person in the street how the feel about pedophila and they'll almost definitely tell you it's evil and sick. I do see why you might say that the line should never be crossed regardless of whether it's currently shaky or not, but I also doubt that anyone who saw any of the child porn in the kink meme will ever abuse a child like that. I wonder if that sort of thing really does have an effect on abuse levels at all.

*hands* I don't know. I'm very uncertain of where I stand here. And it's not something it's easy for me to give myself a firmer view on, because I usually work on my beliefs via discussion, and it's not easy to admit to anything but deep searing hatred towards child pornography, let alone manage a rational discussion about whether some of it might actually be okay, in some contexts (or not). I'm definitely appreciating how reasonable everyone here seems so far though.

If you felt like reading the reply I left for paperclipchains below and offering any thoughts, I'd be interested in hearing them.

But there's the rub: How do you even define harming children? Isn't it a negative thing to view children as sexual objects, period?

I think that's a pretty plausible argument. In general I am tolerant and I also think people should be allowed to write what they please (whether they can post it certain places is another issue altogether), but people should also be responsible and should recognize mental sickness when they see it.

Back when strikethrough happened, a lot of pedophiles (... real ones ...) tried to latch onto fandom and the freedom of speech issue, and there were some truly stupid and naive idiots in fandom who wanted to unite with them. Honestly? Really? Seriously?!

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it mental sickness, but I agree that people should be responsible. You need to think about these things if you're going to read and write them.

And that doesn't surprise me in the least. It's very nerd social fallacy - I think fandom people fear being judged and so are always willing to stick their heads in the sand.

Honestly I think a lot of people who read/write that sort of thing in fandom very much more identify with the child than with the adult. Which I feel is a different thing from fantasizing about children as people you can get sexual gratification from.

When I was eight (possibly, younger, I honestly can't remember) I used to fantasize about adults doing stuff to people my age which would be classed as sexual abuse were it ever to be done in real life. I wasn't really aware of that at the time. I wasn't aware that what I was doing was masturbating or that it had anything to do with sex, at the time. But I do think it colours my perspective on this. I have a hard time accusing eight year old me of being a pedophile, and I gave up those fantasies when I discovered porn and started fantasizing about adults having sex with each other, so I don't consider myself a pedophile now, but if I were to remember being turned on as an eight year old, to revisit the idea of being vulnerable in that way, would that make me one? I don't feel like it would, because in my mind being a pedophile is wanting to abuse children, and I would be thinking about being abused.

It's not something I do, but I have rape fantasies sometimes, and I can see why some people might get something similar from child abuse fantasies. I would feel kind of hypocritical judging them for that, because in my mind it's the same thing I do sometimes, just one step more extreme.

But I can accept that I might be wrong in not condemning it. I'm absolutely not sure of myself here. I feel defensive around people who rage against anything that has even a hint of sexuality+children though. It's like there's no room for me to be unsure of my stance without being A TERRIBLE PERSON, which really just makes me sympathise more with the other perspective. :/

Yeah, I think it's an important distinction to make - who do you identify with here? I think fantasizing about rape in which you are the one being raped (or "raped," as seems common) is much different than getting off to somebody else being raped.

I think it's important to think about this stuff, not so that you can judge other people, but because I think that the path to real mental illness and serious sexual problems is a lack of self-awareness.

This.

It's suchs a pedo excuse. "I'm not really hurting children, I'm just fantasizing about them." *Pukes* Fantasy or reality, the basic fact is that it's Child Pornography, there are no justifications for it.

I don't think it's a pedo's excuse. It's an excuse of people who are worried about being judged for their OWN fantasy - I mean, I can see someone who is into BDSM saying this. It's not real violence, it's fantasy violence, and that's true.

Anyway, it's a fandom meme. The funny thing about fandom is that these things aren't taboo, but talking about them often is? People get defensive, I sympathize. But like you said, child porn is still child porn.

Yes, it is. ^_^' (he was 'hanging out' with Princess Peach.) LOL

Personally, I think he'd be more into Zelda.

Well, I don't have any Zelda sims... yet.

I don't think that being a 'suethor' would automatically make someone a "bad writer." It is ignorance of fandom conventions and perhaps clichés that professionals avoid... yes. But things like that can be overcome.

As far as fandom goes, OP: you should do it for fun. Have fun doing it. If you're doing it just to get asspats from others then you're doing it for the wrong reason! If writing something "bad" gives you enjoyment, then do it... and ignore what the haters say.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #745 ]

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